Warrants and Police Raids.

[Darius94]

Just now, Big_Smokes said:

 

Even if my entire faction couldn't spell the words ''probable cause'', it wouldn't make a difference. We can't give ourselves warrants. All warrants are signed off on by the JSA, whose ultimate responsibility it is to ensure we meet the standards required to meet the threshold of probable cause.

 

People don't just get caught because they pose with a gun on facebrowser. Just because you don't know the ins and out of the process doesn't make it all metagaming.

"maybe they conducted surveillance on the individuals before moving in. I am quite sure they need more evidence to raid your property than a facebrowser picture "

 

what I was trying to say, big_smokes summed it up. 

[Jedbediah]

+1 and also +Support for increased complexity for K9 units. Drug dogs aren't gun dogs and visa versa.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Jedbediah

[Max3]

Just now, Jedbediah said:

+1 and also +Support for increased complexity for K9 units. Drug dogs aren't gun dogs and visa versa.

I'm pretty sure they have either 1 or the other as it is.

[SaintBatemanofWallStreet]

Just now, Max3 said:

I'm pretty sure they have either 1 or the other as it is.

Correct.

[Jedbediah]

Just now, Max3 said:

I'm pretty sure they have either 1 or the other as it is.

Ah cool cool, hard to tell from the outside having never interacted with them myself.

[Max3]

6 minutes ago, Big_Smokes said:

People don't just get caught because they pose with a gun on facebrowser. Just because you don't know the ins and out of the process doesn't make it all metagaming.

I never said that y'all MG'd, I'm just saying that the first attempted raid (Talked out of by the poster) and the picture's post was literally under a few days. The PD raided the house the next day. I highly doubt that enough surveillance occurred in the time that passed to verify that it was a real firearm.

[Big_Smokes]

32 minutes ago, Max3 said:

Right now it seems that warrants are being given out and houses are being searched at an unrealistic rate. I understand its a game so crimes happen more thus more warrants are granted, but for the reason of promoting roleplay where is the line between fun RP between both sides and playing to win?

 

For a warrant to be issued in America police must have probable cause that a crime has/is being committed and that items connected to the crime are likely to be found inside the property. This being said the police will not raid you for an armed robbery or even a murder if you are caught with the firearm. Drugs are the same way. Police tend to watch over criminals before they opt for the search warrant because then the person knows they're being watched. Search warrants are also allowed when the specific property is being used to commit the felony. 

 

In GTAW a house was raided because of a picture of a man holding a gun on Facebrowser. What if it was a fake gun? What if it was an airsoft gun? There is no way that police in real life would be able to get a warrant granted for a picture with a gun, or would PD even try to push for a warrant. Search warrants are being handed out because someone is caught for armed robbery at the scene. If we take a look at the point earlier, warrants are only handed out if there is a probable suspicion that evidence from the crime is inside the property. Why would evidence from the scene, which the criminal never left, be currently inside his house? On a server that values in depth role play this should not be the case. 

 

My point is that there's a fine line between where LEO RPers RP being hard on criminals and where this behavior becomes destructive to criminal RP as a whole and where the focus is more about winning than it is about realistic actions. A few months ago we had the issue of people inside the LEO factions using dogs in any possible situation to smell vehicles for drugs with little IC reason which was quickly handled by administrators.  It seems that house raids are the new drug and 'gun' dogs.

 

To react to the OP:

 

''For a warrant to be issued in America police must have probable cause that a crime has/is being committed and that items connected to the crime are likely to be found inside the property. This being said the police will not raid you for an armed robbery or even a murder if you are caught with the firearm. Drugs are the same way. Police tend to watch over criminals before they opt for the search warrant because then the person knows they're being watched. Search warrants are also allowed when the specific property is being used to commit the felony. ''

 

This standard is always met by way of us providing information/evidence/priors/w/e to the JSA who are the ultimate quality control when it comes to warrants. They decide if we've met the threshold of probable cause. The way it works is:

 

> Officer finds person doing x/y/z

> Officer investigated the incident, performs a background check on the person, do secretive investigaty things

> Officer applies for relevant arrest/search warrant

> Independent judge from the JSA (usually ensured to not be assigned to the relevant faction they're dealing with, so PD or SD) reviews the warrant

> Judge denies warrant/signs off on warrant

> We get X amount of time to execute said warrant

 

''In GTAW a house was raided because of a picture of a man holding a gun on Facebrowser. What if it was a fake gun? What if it was an airsoft gun? There is no way that police in real life would be able to get a warrant granted for a picture with a gun, or would PD even try to push for a warrant. Search warrants are being handed out because someone is caught for armed robbery at the scene. If we take a look at the point earlier, warrants are only handed out if there is a probable suspicion that evidence from the crime is inside the property. Why would evidence from the scene, which the criminal never left, be currently inside his house? On a server that values in depth role play this should not be the case. ''

 

That simply doesn't happen. There is always more information that you're simply not privy to. And what, are you saying cops don't ever apply for wonky warrants in real life just to get lucky? Please. I have no doubt that they do, and why shouldn't they? I think you meant probable cause and once again, that quality control is done by judges that work for the JSA. We actually have to prove that someone has x contraband, that there is a strong reason for us to believe it may be stashed in x property, etcetera. That has absolutely nothing to do with roleplay quality at all, that's just basic police work.

 

''My point is that there's a fine line between where LEO RPers RP being hard on criminals and where this behavior becomes destructive to criminal RP as a whole and where the focus is more about winning than it is about realistic actions. A few months ago we had the issue of people inside the LEO factions using dogs in any possible situation to smell vehicles for drugs with little IC reason which was quickly handled by administrators.  It seems that house raids are the new drug and 'gun' dogs.''

 

If we were 100% on realism, then you'd be spending 3 OOC months in pre trial before a judge would ever bother to review your case in full. If you do basic research on google, you'll find that gun dogs do exist, just as @SaintBatemanofWallStreet explained before. Also, that issue was resolved by LSPD Staff internally. Server administration did not have to intervene, they brought the information to us and worked with us to resolve the concern in a balanced and fair manner.

[Big_Smokes]

1 minute ago, Max3 said:

I never said that y'all MG'd, I'm just saying that the first attempted raid (Talked out of by the poster) and the picture's post was literally under a few days. The PD raided the house the next day. I highly doubt that enough surveillance occurred in the time that passed to verify that it was a real firearm.

I was replying to someone else who replied on this thread. What does surveillance have to do with any of this? For all you know we had a whole databank full of information on the person prior to that picture ever being posted. That's not how detective roleplay works in the slightest. You would be surprised at the size and detail of our information databanks that detectives/intelligence officers/patrol officers maintain on the people they interact with. Our paperwork machine is massive. That being said, it's even shared between ourselves and the Sheriffs Department's Detective Bureau for this exact reason.

 

We don't have fancy tools like some of us were used to on other communities with different scripts. These guys put in real hours on the daily to gather information on the people they're investigating. Sometimes a picture with a gun is all that's needed to make the case for a search warrant on someone with a gang card and 5 priors for possession of an unlicensed firearm.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Big_Smokes

[Max3]

Just now, Big_Smokes said:

That simply doesn't happen. There is always more information that you're simply not privy to. And what, are you saying cops don't ever apply for wonky warrants in real life just to get lucky? Please. I have no doubt that they do, and why shouldn't they? I think you meant probable cause and once again, that quality control is done by judges that work for the JSA. We actually have to prove that someone has x contraband, that there is a strong reason for us to believe it may be stashed in x property, etcetera. That has absolutely nothing to do with roleplay quality at all, that's just basic police work.

 

No I don't because that's a huge waste of everybody involved's time lmfao.

Just now, Big_Smokes said:

If we were 100% on realism, then you'd be spending 3 OOC months in pre trial before a judge would ever bother to review your case in full. If you do basic research on google, you'll find that gun dogs do exist, just as @SaintBatemanofWallStreet explained before. Also, that issue was resolved by LSPD Staff internally. Server administration did not have to intervene, they brought the information to us and worked with us to resolve the concern in a balanced and fair manner.

I'm not talking about full realism I'm just asking for what everyone thought about warrants, as I find that they could improve. Yes I know gun dogs exist hence why the suggestion is about warrants not gun dogs.

[Toe tagging]

The police in this server already have enough power by being able to metagame in TS, which is totally allowed, while criminal RP’ers get banned for asking someone where they are so they can rp in discord. It’s a clowns circus at this point, and I don’t give a fuck who I offend anymore. The PD in this server is dogshit ass, with a P2W mentality no matter what they do. The SD on the other hand is great, I’ve had very few bad interactions with them and they seem to actually know how to RP American law enforcement. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Toe tagging