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Warrants and Police Raids.


Max3

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Ok.. this debate wasn't about whether K9 can detect weapons but about property warrants being issued with poor reasoning just for the sake of it. I would like to hear the HC's LSPD input over this topic.

Edited by Darius94
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Just now, Sacred said:

And if the gun isn't loaded?

If you expect that gun to shoot, it's going to be oiled. Dogs can be trained to smell that too.

But let's be honest - You're not after the probability of the gun not being loaded. Because as an LEO RPer IN K9, the number of guns I've found on people that didn't have ammo with them? Maybe 1 in 100? That's being generous. Because the people on this server aren't risking their guns without ammunition.

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16 minutes ago, Max3 said:

Search warrants are being handed out because someone is caught for armed robbery at the scene.

When did this happen?

 

  

1 minute ago, Darius94 said:

Ok.. this debate wasn't about whether K9 can detect weapons but about property warrants being issued with poor reasoning just for the sake of it. I would like to hear the HC's LSPD input over this topic.

I'm not sure what the Los Santos Police Department has to do with this. The Judiciary of San Andreas regulates search warrants. Yes, police officers request those warrants, but it's ultimately a judge that decides whether a search warrant met or satisfied the standard of probable cause or not. 

 

4 minutes ago, Henning said:

Simply finding a gun on a gangbanger is not probably cause to go search his home and vehicle, LEO's have zero reason to believe he has additional weapons in these locations

Why are you making it seem like police officers can kick down doors whenever they feel like it? They have to request a search warrant which has to be signed off by a judge. And no, we don't allow cops to search apartments because a gun was found on the suspect. You're just ill-informed or choosing to be ignorant. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Henning said:

I'd be interested to see just exact the procedure the LSPD has to go through to be granted a search warrant by a judge. Probably cause seems entirely misinterpreted by LEO's on this server. Simply finding a gun on a gangbanger is not probably cause to go search his home and vehicle, LEO's have zero reason to believe he has additional weapons in these locations. Like @Max3 said, search warrants are about finding additional evidence connected to the crime. But if the criminal is caught in the act of committing a crime, how could there be additional evidence connected to the crime at his/her home?

 

I also think LEO RPers are selling themselves short and going for the quick win over quality investigation RP. In the case of OP's example, the facebrowser post might warrant extra surveillance of the individual but it doesn't prove probable cause that the weapon is in his possession or even his in the first place. But sadly it seems PD is taking OOC knowledge about these players and groups IC, they know that most criminals will have weapons/drugs in they're homes because they know OOCly they are RPing as a criminal. They pass this information off as "Probably Cause" when in reality it's just Metagaming.

 

Even if my entire faction couldn't spell the words ''probable cause'', it wouldn't make a difference. We can't give ourselves warrants. All warrants are signed off on by the JSA, whose ultimate responsibility it is to ensure we meet the standards required to meet the threshold of probable cause.

 

People don't just get caught because they pose with a gun on facebrowser. Just because you don't know the ins and out of the process doesn't make it all metagaming.

Edited by Big_Smokes
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Yeah it's honestly unrealistic as to how search warrants are executed honestly, and it should be entirely revamped. The server is driven strictly on realism, whilst also having a fun aspect to it... so of course it can't be 100% right, but there needs to be a fine line between the two. LEOs should need to go through the logical steps to obtain a search warrant, and have the means to justify obtaining one... a picture of a gun, a guy having drugs on him, or a gun on him isn't enough... in real life you'll be booked, and await your trial.... your mom's house isn't going to be turned upside down like a bottomless pit by police officers over it. If you're in a investigation, RICO or otherwise and police are evidence of you let's say... money laundering, being a hitman etc then of course you're going to be raided with the justifiable means. 

 

Saying the issue is "within PD and take it to PD leadership" doesn't help either, we've all seen it happen in the past where suggestions that are really gamechanging are told to be "taken to the PD leadership" when it includes the entire community's output, and dodging this won't solve anything. The Justice system on the server and the Police and Sheriff's department all need to work together to improve on their weak-points and execute warrants realistically. Quite frankly? I'd looove to see warrants being done, but with good measures behind it... what you might ask is a good reason in my opinion? Having a solid proof case on a criminal that's under investigation, that's a good reason in my opinion. Raiding someone's house over a drug/gun charge on the street isn't, in my opinion.

 

EDIT: This was posted just as Big Smoke posted his reply, so some of this shouldn't be taken out of proportion, but a few points still stand.

Edited by bidi bidi bom bom
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Just now, Abdulaziz said:

not sure what the Los Santos Police Department has to do with this. The Judiciary of San Andreas regulates search warrants. Yes, police officers request those warrants, but it's ultimately a judge that decides whether a search warrant met or satisfied the standard of probable cause or not

Wasn’t really targeting PD just LEO’s in general, didn’t think I had to mention it but I included the judges who grant the warrant in all that. 

Just now, Abdulaziz said:

 

 

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Just now, bidi bidi bom bom said:

Yeah it's honestly unrealistic as to how search warrants are executed honestly, and it should be entirely revamped. The server is driven strictly on realism, whilst also having a fun aspect to it... so of course it can't be 100% right, but there needs to be a fine line between the two. LEOs should need to go through the logical steps to obtain a search warrant, and have the means to justify obtaining one... a picture of a gun, a guy having drugs on him, or a gun on him isn't enough... in real life you'll be booked, and await your trial.... your mom's house isn't going to be turned upside down like a bottomless pit by police officers over it. If you're in a investigation, RICO or otherwise and police are evidence of you let's say... money laundering, being a hitman etc then of course you're going to be raided with the justifiable means. 

 

Saying the issue is "within PD and take it to PD leadership" doesn't help either, we've all seen it happen in the past where suggestions that are really gamechanging are told to be "taken to the PD leadership" when it includes the entire community's output, and dodging this won't solve anything. The Justice system on the server and the Police and Sheriff's department all need to work together to improve on their weak-points and execute warrants realistically. Quite frankly? I'd looove to see warrants being done, but with good measures behind it... what you might ask is a good reason in my opinion? Having a solid proof case on a criminal that's under investigation, that's a good reason in my opinion. Raiding someone's house over a drug/gun charge on the street isn't, in my opinion.

 

Which part of our warrant executions are not realistic, then? We go through all the motions of applying for warrants, just as in real life. Our warrants are signed off on by judges, just as in real life. We bring adequate backup, special weapons teams or detective to the front to deal with said warrants, just in real life. We can't put people in jail/prison/anywhere indefinitely because the community doesn't want that, and rightfully so. We can't have it both ways. People don't want to spend 3 months in pre-trial arrest and why should they? We do the best with the situation we have and when it comes to applying for, processing and executing warrants we are very loyal to that.

 

When it comes to warrant executions, I can answer any questions you have. Anything else is dealt with by the JSA.

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