Warrants and Police Raids.

[Max3]

Right now it seems that warrants are being given out and houses are being searched at an unrealistic rate. I understand its a game so crimes happen more thus more warrants are granted, but for the reason of promoting roleplay where is the line between fun RP between both sides and playing to win?

 

For a warrant to be issued in America police must have probable cause that a crime has/is being committed and that items connected to the crime are likely to be found inside the property. This being said the police will not raid you for an armed robbery or even a murder if you are caught with the firearm. Drugs are the same way. Police tend to watch over criminals before they opt for the search warrant because then the person knows they're being watched. Search warrants are also allowed when the specific property is being used to commit the felony. 

 

In GTAW a house was raided because of a picture of a man holding a gun on Facebrowser. What if it was a fake gun? What if it was an airsoft gun? There is no way that police in real life would be able to get a warrant granted for a picture with a gun, or would PD even try to push for a warrant. Search warrants are being handed out because someone is caught for armed robbery at the scene. If we take a look at the point earlier, warrants are only handed out if there is a probable suspicion that evidence from the crime is inside the property. Why would evidence from the scene, which the criminal never left, be currently inside his house? On a server that values in depth role play this should not be the case. 

 

My point is that there's a fine line between where LEO RPers RP being hard on criminals and where this behavior becomes destructive to criminal RP as a whole and where the focus is more about winning than it is about realistic actions. A few months ago we had the issue of people inside the LEO factions using dogs in any possible situation to smell vehicles for drugs with little IC reason which was quickly handled by administrators.  It seems that house raids are the new drug and 'gun' dogs.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Max3

[$tunner.]

+1 most def just one go through instagram you'd find many fools flexing with guns n most of them don't really get raided.

Edited June 16, 2020 by $tunner.

[Sacred]

First of all, 'gun' dogs are non-existent. Not even the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) has access to these 'gun' dogs in real life. I don't know why they were scripted in. Gun dogs do not exist.

 

The main thing here is that LEO RPers (a select few) are going with the play-to-win route, which should be frowned upon by faction leadership and administrators.  I think this falls on the judicial faction, as they are the ones approving these. They need to start enforcing stricter rules. Something like raiding a house for a man holding a gun on Facebrowser should be investigated before a search warrant is executed.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Sacred

[red raggin]

BIG plus one, I've seen around 3-6 houses getting raided in ONE WEEK down at Vespucci, it's just unrealistic for PD to raid houses over shit like that. PD just don't straight up raid those who post pictures of guns on internet, as Max said, it could be fake, it could be an air-soft gun, basically anything, take rappers as an example.

[Bouncer]

Agreed, shit is just getting out of hand, seriously.

[SaintBatemanofWallStreet]

2 minutes ago, Sacred said:

First of all, 'gun' dogs are non-existent. Not even the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) has access to these 'gun' dogs in real life. I don't know why they were scripted in. Gun dogs do not exist.

Incorrect. You can train a dog to smell juuuust about anything. They're not smelling the guns, that's just a piece of metal. They're smelling the things that go with guns. They're smelling oils, or gun powder residue, or the primers on the bullets. Scriptwise are they smelling the guns? In practicality are they? No. They're smelling the things I previously mentioned.


 

[Darius94]

8 minutes ago, Max3 said:

 

 

In GTAW a house was raided because of a picture of a man holding a gun on Facebrowser. What if it was a fake gun? What if it was an airsoft gun? There is no way that police in real life would be able to get a warrant granted for a picture with a gun, or would PD even try to push for a warrant. Search warrants are being handed out because someone is caught for armed robbery at the scene. If we take a look at the point earlier, warrants are only handed out if there is a probable suspicion that evidence from the crime is inside the property. Why would evidence from the scene, which the criminal never left, be currently inside his house? On a server that values in depth role play this should not be the case. 

 

 

I was just about to say I miss your point as I can't see anything wrong until I've came across this aforementioned. Yes, that looks a bit silly and in a way they just tryinna get some action up.

 

About the vespuci or whatever situation you were talking, it might be brought up and covered based on ICly evidence, maybe they conducted surveillance on the individuals before moving in. I am quite sure they need more evidence to raid your property than a facebrowser picture, if that's true, then it sucks.

[Trupiano]

I'd be interested to see just exact the procedure the LSPD has to go through to be granted a search warrant by a judge. Probably cause seems entirely misinterpreted by LEO's on this server. Simply finding a gun on a gangbanger is not probably cause to go search his home and vehicle, LEO's have zero reason to believe he has additional weapons in these locations. Like @Max3 said, search warrants are about finding additional evidence connected to the crime. But if the criminal is caught in the act of committing a crime, how could there be additional evidence connected to the crime at his/her home?

 

I also think LEO RPers are selling themselves short and going for the quick win over quality investigation RP. In the case of OP's example, the facebrowser post might warrant extra surveillance of the individual but it doesn't prove probable cause that the weapon is in his possession or even his in the first place. But sadly it seems PD is taking OOC knowledge about these players and groups IC, they know that most criminals will have weapons/drugs in they're homes because they know OOCly they are RPing as a criminal. They pass this information off as "Probably Cause" when in reality it's just Metagaming.

[Sacred]

Just now, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

Incorrect. You can train a dog to smell juuuust about anything. They're not smelling the guns, that's just a piece of metal. They're smelling the things that go with guns. They're smelling oils, or gun powder residue, or the primers on the bullets. Scriptwise are they smelling the guns? In practicality are they? No. They're smelling the things I previously mentioned.


 

Yes. But the script does not smell "GUN POWDER", it smells GUNS. Gunpowder is active when you shoot a gun. So if you've never shot the gun, it's still detected.

[SaintBatemanofWallStreet]

Just now, Sacred said:

Yes. But the script does not smell "GUN POWDER", it smells GUNS. Gunpowder is active when you shoot a gun. So if you've never shot the gun, it's still detected.

Wrong again. If the gun is loaded, there will always be the residual smell of the gunpowder or the primer.