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Base for server realism.


TakeTwo

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Just now, bartman said:

Generally, if that's the point you're after then afaik from that thread I linked if it's not in writing as a San Andreas law, we default to U.S Federal law, not california law.

That's the point of the original post, yes. In regard to the laws, that's a valid point. 

 

I'm talking a reference that's more than just about legality though. Those were just the easiest examples to make. It's  also cultural things based on the areas we're supposed to emulate. 

 

It's hard to articulate here honestly.

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3 minutes ago, TakeTwo said:

 

That's the point of the original post, yes. In regard to the laws, that's a valid point. 

 

I'm talking a reference that's more than just about legality though. Those were just the easiest examples to make. It's  also cultural things based on the areas we're supposed to emulate. 

 

It's hard to articulate here honestly.

No it's a completely valid argument. It's a larger issue imo in kinda differentiating the GTA universe from the RL universe.


For example, we use our own makes and models for cars, totally fine, but most people have no issues roleplaying their pistols as say, a Glock 26 or a 1911. Real phones from iPhones to Nokia's are listed at the phone store. Real music artists and pop culture references are abound, including politicians; so it's just a larger example of to what extent we suspend our disbelief if you will. I think things generally work out fine, though.

 

With regards to your legal question, most common issues (Though obviously we can't make laws for everything) have San Andreas laws on the books. For example, stopping at a crosswalk is in the penal code

 

Second page on public road markings requires drivers to come to a complete stop when pedestrians are crossing at walkways. There is also a jaywalking infraction for civilians not using them.

 

Edited by bartman
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@bartman Yep! If you look at the suggestion I added to the original post on this thread and posted a few times during the conversation.. I'm trying to find a possible solution to have a consistent answer for some of those "one off" type conflicts.

 

Basically creating a reference for things that aren't already covered somewhere in the forums and have come into conflict in how people rp them in a manner that effects role play on the server.

Edited by TakeTwo
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@liq @Declan @CloutToken

I'll post here for the last time since it appears we're clearly talking over one another despite my best attempts to illustrate my arguments with concrete examples.

The idea of San Andreas replacing California, making a state with 30M people disappear, including all the events those people were involved with, is extremely questionable. A lot of these events, like the 2000 Democratic Convention or the 1992 Riots, greatly influenced the rest of the United States (including San Andreas if it were, and it should be, an additional state). A lot of these events may happen again in California.
 

Integrating those events in SA's lore is certainly possible. What makes no sense is treating events that happened after the server went online as part of our lore, when no such thing in fact happened in game. A classic example is the 2018 recreational marijuana sale legalization in California. Or presidential visits. Or the Lakers winning a tournament. California and San Andreas clearly share very different history, enough to consider them to always have been two separate locations.

 

There is also a number of federal and military installations in California, and plenty of people whose character's backgrounds would have involved these locations.  Likewise, there are major, internationally recognized universities in California, and it would make no sense to replace them all under one big "Los Santos University" as it has previously been done on other servers.

You'd also have to replace  "California v. Carney" with "San Andreas v. Carney". And the same logic applies for any future case law involving California.

 

Now imagine the year is 2021 and we have a police shooting that involves LAPD or LASD officers, and the police gets the short end of the stick (like in North Hollywood two decades ago). This would, like other police shootings, greatly shock and influence law enforcement into reviewing their procedure. If San Andreas is an additional state, then it's easy for us to also roleplay the impact of that shooting, hang black-and-blue ribbons everywhere, etc.

If San Andreas replaces California, we can't take that event into account, because you stuck us in that shakey middle ground of "we roleplay as a replacement of california, take their events, unless it contradicts what we've had up until now". This is a rift in spacetime.

 

On the other hand, I don't see anything particularly disturbing with roleplaying a neighboring, smaller (although certainly bigger than the IG map would imply) state near California. We have two Dakotas, as I said earlier. We also have several similar New England states. It's not unprecedented to have states with greatly similar cultures, shared history and geography.

Edited by arrdef
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@arrdef

In regards to your last statement. I'm from the state of Virginia in real life. I can tell you for a fact the people, culture, economy, infrastructure between us and West Virginia are vastly different. Regardless, we're talking about two states which are literally identical. We don't have a knock-off Charleston in North Carolina. It makes no sense to have a knockoff Los Angeles in San Andreas (or West California??)

Edited by CloutToken
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@liq @arrdef @CloutChaser

 

The argument you are having isn't constructive or even on topic with the purpose of this thread anymore. It's based on your personal options of what you think should be the baseline. I did ask for thoughts on this but that does not make any of you opinions more correct or better than the other. Please end it here or I'm just going to ask that this be L&A'd. 

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32 minutes ago, arrdef said:

@liq @Declan @CloutToken

I'll post here for the last time since it appears we're clearly talking over one another despite my best attempts to illustrate my arguments with concrete examples.

The idea of San Andreas replacing California, making a state with 30M people disappear, including all the events those people were involved with, is extremely questionable. A lot of these events, like the 2000 Democratic Convention or the 1992 Riots, greatly influenced the rest of the United States (including San Andreas if it were, and it should be, an additional state). A lot of these events may happen again in California.
 

Integrating those events in SA's lore is certainly possible. What makes no sense is treating events that happened after the server went online as part of our lore, when no such thing in fact happened in game. A classic example is the 2018 recreational marijuana sale legalization in California. Or presidential visits. Or the Lakers winning a tournament. California and San Andreas clearly share very different history, enough to consider them to always have been two separate locations.

 

There is also a number of federal and military installations in California, and plenty of people whose character's backgrounds would have involved these locations.  Likewise, there are major, internationally recognized universities in California, and it would make no sense to replace them all under one big "Los Santos University" as it has previously been done on other servers.

You'd also have to replace  "California v. Carney" with "San Andreas v. Carney". And the same logic applies for any future case law involving California.

 

Now imagine the year is 2021 and we have a police shooting that involves LAPD or LASD officers, and the police gets the short end of the stick (like in North Hollywood two decades ago). This would, like other police shootings, greatly shock and influence law enforcement into reviewing their procedure. If San Andreas is an additional state, then it's easy for us to also roleplay the impact of that shooting, hang black-and-blue ribbons everywhere, etc.

If San Andreas replaces California, we can't take that event into account, because you stuck us in that shakey middle ground of "we roleplay as a replacement of california, take their events, unless it contradicts what we've had up until now". This is a rift in spacetime.

 

On the other hand, I don't see anything particularly disturbing with roleplaying a neighboring, smaller (although certainly bigger than the IG map would imply) state near California. We have two Dakotas, as I said earlier. We also have several similar New England states. It's not unprecedented to have states with greatly similar cultures, shared history and geography.

I 100% agree.

 

It's common sense, all you have to do is pick and choose. If Trump visited California tommorow and was assassinated I'm not going to roleplay it as being in San Andreas; it makes no sense. However I'm also not going to say we edit all flag textures to add another star to represent San Andreas - you need to pick and choose which aspects you bring in from real life and which you bring from the game world.

 

All in all just roleplay it however you want to roleplay it within your own sphere. Don't start crying over /b if somebody says something you disagree with or make it awkward by contradicting them in game; just adapt to the situation and move on.

 

There will never be a consensus on this and if there is an official decision a large majority will disagree either way it's ruled.

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