Issues with "security" portrayal at businesses.

[Kassandra]

The amount of private security groups out there makes LS seem more like Johannesbourg than Los Angeles. I was honestly surprised how easy it is to get a PF license and following that, a Guard Card that lets you work armed security. I'd love to make the applications a bit more difficult.

[Vash Baldeus]

9 hours ago, shiroq said:

I wasn't sure how to word the title to make it obvious. But this has been bugging me for a very long time, why are security companies are basically hired mercenaries?

At most of the clubs you will have security that comes from a big company and most of the time you will have at least one PF holder. There is already a massive abuse of PF guns where majority of the people just apply for one and use it like it's an airsoft pistol shooting people left and right without any consequences or actual rp of taking a life.

Clubs and bars do not hire armed security it's not a thing, absolutely anyone can be a bouncer and they do not need a special license except the ability to handle their job. So why here on gtaw security companies are basically like small mercenary armies?

Worried about weapons being taken into the establishment? You can pat people down, search their purses and what not. Nothing is stopping people from doing that. Yet everyone is fine with just "Id please, cash please. Good to go"

I agree, some of the security do things that are not done in-real life, the patrols, the fact they draw a gun to quickly. I've had an instance where someone smashed a head of a client at my place of business(second hand car lot) using a hammer after he was told to wait in line which he did not like, I pulled the gun for self defense since the attacker was within 3~5feet away from me and still had the hammer in hand, enough to reach me, I did not shoot, I used that licensed weapon as means of subduing the attacker while shouting for others to call the police. People are somewhat trigger happy on this server, most definitely.

 

I for one know and heard of situations at clubs where a visitor was thrown out by bouncers (due to fighting, harassing females etc), came back with a weapon (most of the time cold weapon, I.E. Knife) and assaults the entrance bouncer before being subdued by the other bouncers and arrested by police. There were a few situations where he came back with a gun and shot the bouncers. So yes, if a visitor becomes hostile, has means (weapon), intent and ability to harm the bouncers or other visitors they have the right (if licensed) to shoot the attacking visitor, but not shoot to kill!

 

Licensed PF person can not carry a weapon publicly nor concealed unless he is working as a Guard and has a Guard License, which allows him to publicly have a firearm in a holster on display ONLY WHILE WORKING as a guard! Moreover there is a limit to how many guns a person can buy per month (2 guns, 200 bullets. you can see it in /vstats if you have a license). What I'd love seeing is guard have a baton instead of a gun as another non-lethal utility which is realistic and does exist in-game, so guards who have a Guard License can buy that baton.

[Lemon]

This is also something I noticed; nightclub security is usually a group of massive bouncers that no one wants to mess with — usually if there's someone armed, they'll be outside. You don't want weapons and drunk people to mingle. I feel that a rule suggestion should be put up; if you want to shoot anyone at a club (guard or not) you need admin permission. People are too happy on the trigger because there's not a lot of consequences to it if you die and just PK out of the situation.

 

Also, the only way to stop a fist fight on this game is to just join in and hope someone dies scriptwise, because you can be damn sure no one is going to stop when they have low health (especially when you can't see the other parties' health) so being a bouncer is not as easy as you may think. In real life they'll jump in and break up the fight. Here? they join in until someone dies so you stop fighting. These are the just mechanics of the game. They're not to blame, honestly.

[Vash Baldeus]

Just now, Lemon said:

This is also something I noticed; nightclub security is usually a group of massive bouncers that no one wants to mess with — usually if there's someone armed, they'll be outside. You don't want weapons and drunk people to mingle. I feel that a rule suggestion should be put up; if you want to shoot anyone at a club (guard or not) you need admin permission. People are too happy on the trigger because there's not a lot of consequences to it if you die and just PK out of the situation.

 

Also, the only way to stop a fist fight on this game is to just join in and hope someone dies scriptwise, because you can be damn sure no one is going to stop when they have low health (especially when you can't see the other parties' health) so being a bouncer is not as easy as you may think. In real life they'll jump in and break up the fight. Here? they join in until someone dies so you stop fighting. These are the just mechanics of the game. They're not to blame, honestly.

Exactly, most fights are brawls with zero to no roleplay beforehand. At least from what I've seen, you rarely see someone actually taking the time to use /me /do to fight. So people just brawl until someone died scriptwise, which is unrealistic.

[zaXer.]

46 minutes ago, JustAnM43 said:

Which is the best way to go about it. Unfortunately these "tacticool" companies attract all the attention for whatever reason. This also hooks into the whole PF thing. If you let people dress tacticool and make them think they're something they're not, of course they'll jump the gun on sits. I mean who doesn't want to be a tacticool security guard taking down a gangbanger with a gun, right?? The whole security guard thing on here is pretty "meh." Too much of a PMC vibe, not enough rent-a-cop vibe which is what it should be.

You might wanna uh.. look up some actual security footage from realistic sources, such as all of the California companies. 

I can't sit here and begin giving lections to people why the visual look of guards and their armed status is a very important thing. 

If you haven't went through police academy or security guard courses IRL, I recommend you just not comment at all. 

[Vash Baldeus]

2 minutes ago, zaXer. said:

You might wanna uh.. look up some actual security footage from realistic sources, such as all of the California companies. 

I can't sit here and begin giving [Lectures] to people why the visual look of guards and their armed status is a very important thing. 

If you haven't went through police academy or security guard courses IRL, I recommend you just not comment at all. 

I agree with you here, but being trigger happy is the bigger problem to be honest, more than the uniform they wear. From what I understood it's an issue of them pulling the gun and shot-to-kill situation instead of trying to de-escalate an incident.

[zaXer.]

Just now, Vash Baldeus said:

I agree with you here, but being trigger happy is the bigger problem to be honest, more than the uniform they wear. From what I understood it's an issue of them pulling the gun and shot-to-kill situation instead of trying to de-escalate an incident.

Can't speak for others, but I got statistics from Gruppe 6 - 

Since January 2019 Gruppe 6 exists there have been 4 situations where guns were fired from guards - all in situations where the patrol was attacked during their duties, 0 of which incidents have happened in vicinity of clubs, businesses or other establishments, but rather on the street.

10 situations are where a gun was drawn (excluding situations above), for detainment reasons. 

That's less than once per month where a gun had to be used. Which in the state LS is, that's pretty low. 

 

 

The issues do not come from security guards, but PF and CCW holders. Executive Security is not shooting randomly at people either from my personal look too, so it's not the problem in security companies, but standalone people who have a PF and CCW, not guard card holders. 

 

 

I can't count how many times I have not used my gun, even though I have had the legal reasons to do so, just to prevent escalating the issue. Nobody wants to get arrested or their licenses revoked over some gangster's stupid behavior. 

The issue does not come from security companies. In fact, security companies give grounds for educating and developing guard aimed people. 

[Vash Baldeus]

Just now, zaXer. said:

Can't speak for others, but I got statistics from Gruppe 6 - 

Since January 2019 Gruppe 6 exists there have been 4 situations where guns were fired from guards - all in situations where the patrol was attacked during their duties, 0 of which incidents have happened in vicinity of clubs, businesses or other establishments, but rather on the street.

10 situations are where a gun was drawn (excluding situations above), for detainment reasons. 

That's less than once per month where a gun had to be used. Which in the state LS is, that's pretty low. 

 

 

The issues do not come from security guards, but PF and CCW holders. Executive Security is not shooting randomly at people either from my personal look too, so it's not the problem in security companies, but standalone people who have a PF and CCW, not guard card holders. 

 

 

I can't count how many times I have not used my gun, even though I have had the legal reasons to do so, just to prevent escalating the issue. Nobody wants to get arrested or their licenses revoked over some gangster's stupid behavior. 

The issue does not come from security companies. In fact, security companies give grounds for educating and developing guard aimed people. 

I mean, Gruppe 6 does behave somewhat like a PMC in regards to their street patrol, in real life they do patrol but between business' they secure not random ass streets. So in a way they behave like fake cops.

[JustAnM43]

16 minutes ago, zaXer. said:

You might wanna uh.. look up some actual security footage from realistic sources, such as all of the California companies. 

I can't sit here and begin giving lections to people why the visual look of guards and their armed status is a very important thing. 

If you haven't went through police academy or security guard courses IRL, I recommend you just not comment at all. 

"Visual look of guards and their armed status." I'm sorry, is this a security agency or a fucking PMC? I've also done my research, and I can assure you, the majority of "California companies" do not blouse their boots like paratroopers, nor do they wear tac vests and combat gloves paired up with cowboy hats like they're ready for the Boogaloo.

 

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The issue does not come from security companies. In fact, security companies give grounds for educating and developing guard aimed people. 

 

Y'all are doing a mighty fine job. Keep at it. :^)

[Vash Baldeus]

Just now, JustAnM43 said:

"Visual look of guards and their armed status." I'm sorry, is this a security agency or a fucking PMC? I've also done my research, and I can assure you, the majority of "California companies" do not blouse their boots like paratroopers, nor do they wear tac vests and combat gloves paired up with cowboy hats like they're ready for the Boogaloo.

 

 

Y'all are doing a mighty fine job. Keep at it. :^)

Looks like a PMC behavior to me right there. No security firm has the right to pull someone over. Though I know for a fact that bouncers irl are given vests that prevent being stabbed, they can not stop bullets but can take a stab and keep guard safe from being stabbed in his torso.