Personal Property Market - What do you think?

[MasterChief]

6 minutes ago, JustAnM43 said:

Picked up a culdesac house for a solid realistic price thanks to a properly developed character selling one to me. Price was in the 500 grand range. Day after, I'm met by a message of a person offering me 1.2-1.8m for it. It's absolutely ridiculous. Houses are being super inflated because people are strictly chasing profits and no roleplay whatsoever. Buying a house and trying to flip it for double that is silly and shouldn't be encouraged. Prices should be kept realistic. Inflation's currently starting to hurt the server a lot and only the richest characters are able to own properties.

 

Hell, I've seen Hawick apartments that have a market price of 110 grand go for 600 grand plus. Like, what the hell? And then whoever buys it is gonna try selling it for 700, then 800, and it keeps going up. I straight up refuse to sell my property for two-three times as much because why the hell would I mark up a house for 1-2 mil and restrict everyone but the richest from owning it and using it. The current house prices are insane and the house request system that's been brought in should hopefully at least somewhat balance it.

Perfectly said. It is benefiting those who have been here a longer amount of time and have acquired much more wealth in-game and hurting new players trying to come in and realistically portray their character. Eventually it becomes a grind just to be able to afford your own house. Property Management made it clear they have been instructed not to regulate housing prices at all, so I am also hoping the new request system balances it out.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Chief

[JustAnM43]

Just now, Chief said:

Perfectly said. It is benefiting those who have been here a longer amount of time and have acquired much more wealth in-game and hurting new players trying to come in and realistically portray their character. Eventually it becomes a grind just to be able to afford your own house. I am also hoping the new request system balances it out.

Exactly this. Veteran players are 99.9% of the time benefiting from this, while the newer players suffer. Properties that were made for newer players that aren't able to afford much are going up for 600+ grand instead of the original 110 that was supposed to fit the 200 grand bonus to start them off. From what I heard, the house requests that went through are being priced very realistically and fairly which gives me a lot of hope that it's gonna balance out the property market eventually.

[Trupiano]

There is a base price for each property however as of recently there's been a lot of business and house flipping.

 

I think one of the biggest issues not addressed isn't the fact that people are flipping it's the unintended side effects. Because fancier properties get bought up over night and flipped over and over for an inflated price, a large portion of the community has started moving into places that make no sense for their character. There are people in my complex driving multiple 100k+ cars yet they live in a one room 75k apartment. Absolutely no regard for the fact that they live in a low income and somewhat crime infested area.

 

So now you've got characters who should be living in Mirror Park or Vinewood, taking root in the few low rent apartment blocks outside of South Central we have left yet they are treating them like upper middle class private communities. It's incredibly frustrating for someone like me who wants completely unaffiliated characters living in our area that we can interact with and can provide the unique experience of living in a gang controlled area without them having to fear getting shot at or robbed for no good IC reason. But sadly people like to ignore all the tell tale signs of their area being rough and instead just RP that it's a nice quiet retirement community.

 

 

[Busch]

There are still multiple properties for sale. According to the map. And they go for really cheap prices like 70-80, at most 130k.

 

What is happening here is what happens everywhere. Houses increase their value and so does land anywhere in the world. Except areas that are of no use. People see that someone else has use to a property therefor their conciousness of course wants to get profit because it's a negotiation. They do not do this because it's less RP or more RP. It's in our subconcious to win every deal and trade something we don't value but we see others do for something that is worth it for them. 

 

However land does also decrease its value but those are certain factors such as saftey around the place and so on might decrease it. Also natural disasters. 

 

These prices would drop significantly if there were random events happening to the houses such as fires. In which people would not like to live there due to fees that'd youd have to pay if your house was not insured.

 

But what I'd suggest for buyers to start doing ICily is drop their offerings for now. People are always going to try to benefit from a negotiation. If you subconciously as a group choose to not go according to his decision then he'll stay with the home and you can move on. But prices will continue to rise as more and more players get homes. But what could also help is the new mansions that were added. I do believe that these will give people higher achievements and save their money for bigger things. And things like small houses are not going to be worth much more if people were to start selling these mansions.

[Pádraig]

Not many solutions have been proposed yet other than saying "we need to fix it!" 

Suggesting price controls won't fix it as it would just ruin the market completely and we wouldn't know who to allocate houses for, the goal should be to deflate houses, we could do this in various ways.

 

1) Maintenance fees on homes - They should be near extortionate. They should also scale with the market price of the home. If you cannot afford the maintenance fees of a home (such as insurance, general repairs around the house, plumbing, all under the umbrella of "maintenance fees") then your character probably isn't fit to be in that house anyway. This would also deflate house prices too, especially higher end ones in desirable areas.

 

2) A tax on buying and selling a home - this would mostly effect property flippers while people who buy a house to live in it will only have to pay this tax once.

 

3) Tax on multiple homes - If you own multiple homes, you better be able to afford them. This would only deter people who own homes that are vacant, if you are getting rental income from the homes then you should be able to afford it no problem, if you don't, pay up.

 

4) Fix renting - Right now there is no incentive for renters and for property owners to properly do rental agreements, its much easier and much more profitable to just /setrentable and let stuff as many people as you can in one house. Renting should be a viable options for people that want homes and renting should either be regulated by PM or scriptly regulated, allowing a certain amount of people to be allocated at a house at one time. This'll make renting an actual viable option for accommodation and people who own multiple properties will be forced to rent them out.

[Whatwasit]

It's a gaming economy and it will get worse as the playerbase keeps growing.

 

I can compare the current situation with Amsterdam where I live. Over the past couple of years the amount of people that want to come live in the city and wish to buy or rent a property keeps growing, but all properties have been sold and there are zero availible. So what happens? Property prices raised enormously. Even close outside of the city the prices on properties have doubled and the average price is around 10k per square feet. The house I currently live in was bought for 110k and is now worth around 320k, without taking into account that I ''customized the interior'' like people do on this game. Now imagine a growing playerbase, players having multiple characters, and almost everybody wants to live in Los Santos, with no houses availible.

 

I also have experienced the inflation and change of the economy on one of the biggest roleplay servers on sa-mp over a lot of years. There isn't a way of stopping this inflation on house prices and you shouldn't want to regulate them. There will come a time when all availible properties on the map will be sold and once that happens there will be a larger raise of the property prices. Compare it to the real life situation I explained above.

 

Let's say there aren't any houses (not apartments) availible on the server anymore, like at this moment, the average market price is around 100k, get a interior change and put a lot of effort into your house by customizing the house with furniture. You will be easily at the 200k mark without even noticing. When you want to sell your house, you know you put a lot of effort into your house, there aren't any other houses availible, you know they will be expensive, you know houses have become rare and certain houses have become extremely rare and expensive due to the location. So you either don't want to sell it or sell it at a high price otherwise you're getting fuck all when you want to buy somthing else.

 

Easy solution. Give new players a higher payment for jobs until a cetrain level or just make the payments for jobs higher in general. Rich people don't do jobs because they are rich and don't want to waste their time on doing these jobs, so they most likely won't get richer due to this change. New players and current players get a chance to earn money and will be able to afford stuff. The last time I was doing a job was as garbage man, I was earning $1000 every 30 minutes and this really isn't worth anybody's time.

 

[Syrike]

As was mentioned in another thread, if you're willing to pay far more than the actual value of that property then it is your mistake and you're partially to blame for the stupid inflation people seem to think is ok to put on properties, it could be your characters dream house but would they allow themselves to pay 3 times the price? Would you do this in reality? Or would you tell the seller to jump off a bridge?

 

Would people prefer PM to come out and say something like: Due to the actions of members of the community we have had to limit the price you can put on your properties to no more than 200% of the market price?

 

Because let's face it as JustanM43 said, he got a cul de sac house at a good price and someone came along the next day and offered him a stupidly over the top sum of money. The Staff team will step in if this happens and it is reported or we find it happening as it is completely beyond what should be happening.

 

The only time a price should be excessive is when the custom interior furniture cost forces it up that much, the market price of a property is a thing for a reason, because it is the market price, it isn't just the script price of the property.

[Pádraig]

26 minutes ago, Syrike said:

As was mentioned in another thread, if you're willing to pay far more than the actual value of that property then it is your mistake and you're partially to blame for the stupid inflation people seem to think is ok to put on properties, it could be your characters dream house but would they allow themselves to pay 3 times the price? Would you do this in reality? Or would you tell the seller to jump off a bridge?

But people paying for over-inflated properties is something that happens in reality all the time, look at any booming property market. It makes sense to buy when the prices will never deflate there is no reason not to. Blaming players' characters for trying to get a foot on the property ladder is akin to real life boomers telling the younger generations "I bought my house in the middle of the city when I was in high school while volunteering to be a trainee fire-fighter, just do the same lol."

 

The issue lies with either the inaction of government (this issue could be taken ICly) or with the inaction of PM to control inflation of properties in meaningful and useful ways other than price controls (*idea) which would just shift the problem in a different way.

Edited April 26, 2020 by VisioningHail

[Syrike]

2 minutes ago, VisioningHail said:

But people paying for over-inflated properties is something that happens in reality all the time, look at any booming property market. It makes sense to buy when the prices will never deflate there is no reason not to. Blaming players' characters for trying to get a foot on the property ladder is akin to real life boomers telling the younger generations "I bought my house in the middle of the city when I was in high school while volunteering to be a trainee fire-fighter, just do the same lol."

 

The issue lies with either the inaction of government (this issue could be taken ICly) or with the inaction of PM to control inflation of properties in meaningful and useful ways other than price controls which would just shift the problem in a different way.

I'll let PM handle this, that exact mindset and seeing it as a way to "Get ones foot on the property ladder." Is why this problem exists in the first place. The boomer comment, sure could work but there is not a 40 year time difference here and the actual property value has not changed in any way except in the minds of the people who own them and those who want them at any price.

[Pádraig]

Just to be clear, I don't even think there needs to be a massive price cut on properties. If you want your character to RP living in a hot-spot then clearly they have to be wealthy enough to own a house. However, rampant inflation of property prices is unsustainable and will harm the server in the long-run so my suggestions are aimed at curbing the inflation of properties and punishing damaging behaviour which doesn't lead to anything good being created (such as vacant properties) or curbing the ownership of houses to characters that are unsuited to own one (or multiple) homes.