Inflation & Economy Discussion

[Tsarna]

Just now, SupSupreme said:

Indeed, I would personally like to see more businesses and not just more casinos/bars/garages, the only problem is that most of the other businesses are not profitable, therefore we are seeing less and less unique business ideas because players are prioritizing money instead of roleplay. I think that the government should be investing in unique business ideas that would actually have an IC impact on the environment of the server, for example, a flight school or a private clinic, those businesses have a good impact on both the society and the environment, therefore, the government should be investing in such businesses and lowering their tax rate, since such companies are expected less income. That would enhance the unique roleplay around the server, which would also create a big variety of fun job options for the players, which I think would attract even more players to the server. I would recommend the administration team to take it seriously and do very thorough thinking about this subject and come to a mutual agreement that would push the server forward, both in the economic term and in the roleplay term.

Second that. We have a Music Store - quite few people come by, etcetera.

[HaveADream]

Just now, SupSupreme said:

Indeed, I would personally like to see more businesses and not just more casinos/bars/garages, the only problem is that most of the other businesses are not profitable, therefore we are seeing less and less unique business ideas because players are prioritizing money instead of roleplay. I think that the government should be investing in unique business ideas that would actually have an IC impact on the environment of the server, for example, a flight school or a private clinic, those businesses have a good impact on both the society and the environment, therefore, the government should be investing in such businesses and lowering their tax rate, since such companies are expected less income. That would enhance the unique roleplay around the server, which would also create a big variety of fun job options for the players, which I think would attract even more players to the server. I would recommend the administration team to take it seriously and do very thorough thinking about this subject and come to a mutual agreement that would push the server forward, both in the economic term and in the roleplay term.

 

Government has absolutely enough money to fund these businesses in their entirety. My worry is that businesses won't be long-term financially sustainable, which is in the conditions of any grants - proving your business will be viable in the long term.

 

I've seen private clinics, psychologists etc. disappear from a lack of long-term funding. A simple way around this would be a monthly payment. 

[Shaderz]

I suggest two things:

• Create variable cost property taxes which include both residences and businesses, so people don't just pay for owning the land itself, but they also pay for basic home/business utilities such as water, electricity, natural gas, trash and recycling, among all other things. The variable I see fit for this is the amount of time players spend in these places, so the more time you spend in your home, the more you're going to pay, because realistically speaking you're also wasting more. The same should apply to businesses, but not to the same extent as residencies, otherwise high-populated businesses would go bankrupt very quickly.
• Reduce the amount of paychecks. I suggest two things here:
  • Create a system based on the amount of hours people spend playing the game, and half it, so let's say if someone plays on the server for 8 hours, they receive the equivalent of 4 paychecks. This paycheck can happen when the in-game time is midnight, every day. If you're offline but spent time playing on the server in that day, you also receive this paycheck and once you log in the next time, it will give you a notification detailing how much you earned, etc.
  • Instead of hourly paychecks, force them every two hours instead. Essentially, it will end up as the above one, but you don't have to wait for midnight and it's instant.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Shaderz

[Exploits]

1 hour ago, liafriuli said:

@Daylong The purpose of the thread is not to focus on money. The opposite. Limiting how people can stack assets will keep people in a sustainable frame and it will prevent owning 20 cars and 10 houses without actual roleplay behind acquiring the funds. Right now, as the money just comes and comes into the economy, people can stack up ungodly assets without having to worry about the financial difficulties it would cause in real-life. That is why I believe that we should drain some (!) money out of the system, especially if you own an unrealistic amount of assets. 

Servers I've been on have tackled this in a number of ways: perhaps the weakest solution is simply increasing the purchasing price of homes, for example, by a factor of ten for each one after the first. The issue is that, as has been outlined, this doesn't prevent people who have already accrued immense wealth from paying off what is ostensibly a one-time "Sorry for being rich ?" fine. Instituting such a system moving forward also doesn't remove assets nor wealth from people who already own them.

I don't mind people owning a glut of cars, as a dealership enterprise would have reason for it, and vehicles are spawned at an unlimited rate. But houses are an issue. Sandy Shores, for example, currently has no homes for sale. Current owners (whoever they are) could sell for 100x market price because ... well, what else will do you about it? Nothing else is available without a market that exists outside of current home owners. And while I'd argue owning a vehicle is more important for role-play access than a home is, there's no doubt that having a home on your character helps to establish a better sense of identity and community.

 

I've always leaned on taxation as the answer. It shouldn't be enough to simply 'afford' a big house by paying the one-time price -- you should have to be active or wealthy enough to afford the steep taxes that come with it. And those taxes should increase logarithmically for each home you own, increasing your total overhead and bankruptcy risk if you fail to pay them. There's an astonishing number of people that I randomly encounter through the MDC who have no clear source of income of work but own 2-3 homes/apartments. So now imagine you pay 10% tax on your first apartment ($100k, so $10k weekly), then 100% on the second ($100k weekly), and 1,000% on the third ($1mil). Sound steep? Yes. But I'm more concerned with ensuring everybody has a chance to access home ownership and the role-play that comes with it than with the supposed damage that it'll to do people who want to look wealthy or simply buy things for the sake of buying.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Exploits

[eMe]

I suppose the problem with housing is how do you scale it, as there are only finite houses on the map, as long as the player base increases the property prices will surge up. So what is now a 500K house may be in one years time a 5M$ house through no fault of the player or the script, it's just about what someone is willing to pay for it. Would you make the player who bought the house at 500K be penalized x10 for owning in theory a 500K house? 

[Exploits]

Just now, eMe said:

I suppose the problem with housing is how do you scale it, as there are only finite houses on the map, as long as the player base increases the property prices will surge up. So what is now a 500K house may be in one years time a 5M$ house through no fault of the player or the script, it's just about what someone is willing to pay for it. Would you make the player who bought the house at 500K be penalized x10 for owning in theory a 500K house? 

That's certainly an issue in the long term, but the saleable price =/= market price. With my Sandy Shores example, the homes when sold still 'sell' through the script for the same price, but the owner has the advantage of demanding extra value due to the limited supply before doing so. The tax should be based on that market price exlusively.

 

The benefit also of a tax system is that it puts the onus on the player to own what they can afford and what is within their means. If you're not active or wealthy enough to maintain ownership of multiple properties, or even the one property you have, then you have to scale down, resulting in homes returning to market for those that can afford it.

[icarusfeather]

Yeah they should definitely make more car maintenance. The problem is you need to drive 1350 miles to require maintenance and people usually don't reach 1350 miles unless it's a faction car. 

 

I'm not sure if it will work in RAGE but there should definitely be tire wear cuz I see people burn tires all the time with no repercussions. If you were to burn tires every day eventually your shit would turn to baloney skin. Would also give cops a reason to ticket for having an unroadworthy vehicle.

[Ohngesicht]

5 hours ago, HaveADream said:

Running a legal business is impossible unless you get script/government cash. Every other non-legal venture that isn't some variation of a nightclub or bar makes very little profit, if any, this eventually takes us to the situation we're in now where there is very little long term innovation because, of how the economy fundamentally works and the closed nature of it, no other business, other than your standard nightclub/bar/casino can succeed.

 

For example, when I ran Saints News, the maximum I could pay staff to break even (no profit) was $2500 an article, they could earn double that in an hour working in a 24/7, or triple in a nightclub for an hour.

 

We want to fix the economy? Take a look at the current service industry.

Now that is not true.

Let me remind you of my char that has spent a lot of money for sponsored articles and on top of that he wanted to buy shares for around 500k.

You surely had the opportunity to make enough money.

[HaveADream]

Just now, Ohngesicht said:

Now that is not true.

Let me remind you of my char that has spent a lot of money for sponsored articles and on top of that he wanted to buy shares for around 500k.

You surely had the opportunity to make enough money.

 

My character knew you was in the mob and that you knew the company didn't make money - there was a reason she didn't accept your investment. 

 

That was, however, the only investment offer I ever got, the sponsored articles were nice, but they didn't pay much of the day-to-day running of the business (which got very expensive towards the end).

[Gambler]

Your post is quite nice and accurate. But let me tell you why it will never happen. It's not fun to not have money in a game. At least majority wants that. Now think about the reaction of money hungry playerbase for once. Like, you witnessed what happened in Properties Management discord when entrance fee was removed. The closest thing to a pixel riot.