Rule about Entry fees.

[Luna]

8 minutes ago, zaXer. said:

or a way to show your interior and improve people's decision to enter. Not only, startshift to get paid doesn't work outside interiors.  

Every business gets easily 25-30 people in them, which always yields the 20k bonus, so it doesnt matter if 3 out of 30 refuse to enter.  

Startshift shouldn't be the only deciding factor. After all startshift is intended for day to day operated businesses that you can join with a command. Not for roleplay companies such as clubs that should be paying you on their own.

[BINGBONGBALONEY]

47 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

Why isn’t this dealt with in character? They’re doing it in character are they not?

I'm assuming the problem OP has comes from the potential OOC government bonus abuse, business owners being intentionally vague at the doors hoping it'll lead more players inside that might not of bothered if they knew they had to pay just to beat the quota and get their surprise 20k. 

 

It's not a gamebreaker but I can see how it's considered a dickmove OOC.

[Vash Baldeus]

2 minutes ago, BINGBONGGHOST said:

I'm assuming the problem OP has comes from the potential OOC government bonus abuse, business owners being intentionally vague at the doors hoping it'll lead more players inside that might not of bothered if they knew they had to pay just to beat the quota and get their surprise 20k. 

 

It's not a gamebreaker but I can see how it's considered a dickmove OOC.

It is, they basically doubling their pay this way.

[Shokkoth]

2 minutes ago, Vash Baldeus said:

It is, they basically doubling their pay this way.

How? 

All they can get from the government is 20k, regardless of whether 20 or 200 people show up.

[MasterChief]

4 hours ago, Vash Baldeus said:

Entrance fee should be a transparent thing, lets the person know that if he wants to enter, he has to pay. I don't talk about the amount, I am talking about making it a known thing. Because some places do not charge shit, some do.

If a place has a booth set up with guards and the expectation is that you have to sign in, anyone over the age of 21 can reasonably assume that there is a cover charge to get in. I agree that it wouldn’t take long to establish the fact that there is a cover charge, but honestly it should be pretty easy to figure out. It’s a nightclub. Assume there will be a cover charge until there isn’t one. Easiest thing to do would be to do a /createscene near the booth describing the entry fee sign and price, but that is the club owner’s / manager’s IC decision. This shouldn’t be influenced in any other way. 
 

This is an IC issue at the end of the day. I don’t agree with any OOC intervention. What a club owner decides to do with their business, is their decision. Legal or otherwise. Make a formal complaint to the licensing office (government site) that a club isn’t displaying their entry fee properly and your belief that it’s misleading people. Insisting on an OOC rule for this is the wrong direction.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Kestalas

[Vash Baldeus]

12 minutes ago, Kestalas said:

If a place has a booth set up with guards and the expectation is that you have to sign in, anyone over the age of 21 can reasonably assume that there is a cover charge to get in. I agree that it wouldn’t take long to establish the fact that there is a cover charge, but honestly it should be pretty easy to figure out. It’s a nightclub. Assume there will be a cover charge until there isn’t one. 

Regardless, the guards do the job of checking the ID? They can clearly mention there's an entry fee to pay, especially if you pay that fee to them. Not once these guards mentioned that, especially last night after checking my ID they did not say a word nor mention anything, only after I passed them they shouted about it. Hence my rule suggestion to make it clear in some way about the fact there is an entry fee to pay.

 

Not a single person before me in the line took money to pay (nor roleplayed paying anything), so assuming an entry fee is well making assumptions based on nothing. My issue is the way they address this whole thing after the entry fee was completely removed from script-wise businesses, is false and admins should've made it clear a bit more on such things. Also I've never seen a place IRL where the GUARD is the one who receives the entry-fee money, most I've seen them do, is check if person has a ticket, if not, they directed said person to the ticket booth to obtain one.

 

Moreover as it was already written here in the thread:

3 hours ago, DanneBRE said:

Admins already confirmed you need to take payment outside the clubs/Bars.

Business owners are not allowed to take payment inside. That was what I was told by an admin. Also the sign won’t work maybe with the /do but I personally won’t pay for platinum to add a sign outside X business. The above was told to me on Sunday, not sure if this is being enforced or not.

 

If the admins confirmed that, then a Business must adhere to Admin instructions / decisions and publicly disclose either by a sign or a person that entry has to be paid in order to be allowed inside. There is room for such a rule to prevent business doing shady shit like asking entry fee using literal goons which is with all honestly unrealistic to ask unless said goon decided to ask for entry-fee on his own accord without owner knowing. (Extortion of sorts)

 

I fully understand the business point of view, they are there to earn money, my issue was not the sum they requested but the shady method of how they requested it. I was told the sum to pay for entry only AFTER I walked passed guards who checked my ID, not once they have mentioned the sum for entry fee nor that entry has to be paid, nor whom do I have to pay it to. Even if a business is run by an Illegal Faction, they keep a Legal Front as business? They should adhere to basic things to not bring unwanted attention to their business.

 

I believe that any business, even without proper signage should have a person who deals in entry-fees who is NOT a guard, but an employee. Why? Because even without the signs he or she can notify the clients about the amount that has to be paid for a fee / ticket while the guards check clients ID for proper age.

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Vash Baldeus

[MasterChief]

32 minutes ago, Vash Baldeus said:

Regardless, the guards do the job of checking the ID? They can clearly mention there's an entry fee to pay, especially if you pay that fee to them. Not once these guards mentioned that, especially last night after checking my ID they did not say a word nor mention anything, only after I passed them they shouted about it. Hence my rule suggestion to make it clear in some way about the fact there is an entry fee to pay.

 

Not a single person before me in the line took money to pay (nor roleplayed paying anything), so assuming an entry fee is well making assumptions based on nothing. My issue is the way they address this whole thing after the entry fee was completely removed from script-wise businesses, is false and admins should've made it clear a bit more on such things. Also I've never seen a place IRL where the GUARD is the one who receives the entry-fee money, most I've seen them do, is check if person has a ticket, if not, they directed said person to the ticket booth to obtain one.

 

Moreover as it was already written here in the thread:

 

If the admins confirmed that, then a Business must adhere to Admin instructions / decisions and publicly disclose either by a sign or a person that entry has to be paid in order to be allowed inside. There is room for such a rule to prevent business doing shady shit like asking entry fee using literal goons which is with all honestly unrealistic to ask unless said goon decided to ask for entry-fee on his own accord without owner knowing. (Extortion of sorts)

 

I fully understand the business point of view, they are there to earn money, my issue was not the sum they requested but the shady method of how they requested it. I was told the sum to pay for entry only AFTER I walked passed guards who checked my ID, not once they have mentioned the sum for entry fee nor that entry has to be paid, nor whom do I have to pay it to. Even if a business is run by an Illegal Faction, they keep a Legal Front as business? They should adhere to basic things to not bring unwanted attention to their business.

 

I believe that any business, even without proper signage should have a person who deals in entry-fees who is NOT a guard, but an employee. Why? Because even without the signs he or she can notify the clients about the amount that has to be paid for a fee / ticket while the guards check clients ID for proper age.

 

I still don't see where guards not mentioning the price is an OOC issue. The guards aren't doing their IC job if that's the case, so take it up with management.

 

No nightclub in real life takes a cover charge payment inside, they take it at the door before you step foot in the place. That's just common sense. Hiring additional personnel to manage a ticket booth is the club owner's decision. Having the guards perform double duty? Nothing wrong with that. I've been to plenty of places in real life where that's the case, so your statement on that is incorrect. If you have a problem with the way a club is managed, that's not an OOC reason for intervention.

 

Admins having to confirm a business taking a cover charge outside is just silly. I'm sure they probably thought so as well. That's why the automatic fee was taken at the door. It should be self-explanatory that's where the fee should be charged. Also, nothing in their confirmation says that a business needs to use a sign or publicly disclose anything. It just confirms that the cover charge should be taken at the door, which is again common sense. Still see no need for an OOC rule on this. Admin intervention where necessary to correct the assumption because its a new system now? Sure. Requiring an OOC rule to state that a business should have a sign at the door? Absolutely not. This is an IC issue that should stay IC. That's what the IC government business code is for, to regulate how businesses operate. Take it up with them.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Kestalas

[mala]

I've definitely seen clubs & bars take the payment inside, at a little booth/front desk. Sometimes by either employees or bouncers/guards. And considering the gov bonus maxes out at 20k, it's unlikely that collecting it inside is even worth abusing. Collecting inside can also be a way to show off the interior & how busy/entertaining the place is, before you pay. So you don't pay $500 and walk into a disappointment.

 

Anyway, if they can't place a sign with furniture, or just decide to do it inside, maybe they can use /createscene at the door to rp a sign with the price and avoid all this.

Scripted door fees should really just be put back in place, honestly.

[DanneBRE]

@Vash Baldeus Disregard what I stated above. Admins just rolled back what I stated above. The administration team will not force people to have the “ticket booth” outside. And people will be allowed to take payment inside.

 

sorry for going slightly off topic.

Edited April 21, 2020 by DanneBRE

[Vash Baldeus]

5 minutes ago, zaXer. said:

@Vash Baldeus you walked through this, the only difference was that ther was TWO guards, instead of one shown in the picture.

 

 

 

What makes you think that you can walk around all the barries, avoid the guards (by pushing into them to make them move game-wise) and enter without doing absolutely anything RP wise? You got called out and kicked out of the place afterwards, then you whine here. 

Why?

In the incident that took place here, the guard was not in the middle, nor was he blocking my way in any way. Neither of those guards mentioned a word about entry fee, not before nor after they checked my ID for adult age. Nor did anyone prior me in the line roleplay paying anything to anyone.

 

How am I supposed to know there's a fee, and how much if no one gives any signs (RP or say anything)? I am not a mind reader.