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Realistic Legal and Illegal RP


Copacetic

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Everything in my original post is my opinion. It's not the opinion of any legal faction I'm a member of and I have no interest in speaking on behalf of anybody else. 

 

From my point of view, law enforcement can be rigid. A lot of police RPers are very robotic and feel that if they do anything that might be seen as corruption, they'll get removed. I think the PD and SD (a faction I'm a part of) should focus on developing characters, in general. Not so much putting people in jail. I'm not talking shit or pointing fingers but, I've seen these issues firsthand and I can see things from the criminal's point of view. Sometimes, I'm guilty of it. Too busy RPing a faction, not busy enough RPing my character. As legal faction members, OOCly, we have to realize that what we do directly impacts RP on the server, as a whole. We have the ability to put people in jail for IRL days, in some cases, weeks. The least we could do is give them a little space to develop their faction(s) and characters without being around the corner ready to jump every time we hear a gunshot. I'm not saying we shouldn't patrol gang areas and high crime areas IRL are always patrolled frequently but as we all know, illegal RP is pretty centralized in South-Central LS right now. That's not our fault, as cops, but it wouldn't hurt to give these factions a little room to breathe. Again, not pointing fingers, just saying that I think we can all do a little better. 

 

Illegal RPers. I feel that a lot of the issues you might have with the legal RPers is that whenever a cop rolls up, it's always "fuck twelve" or whatever. I get that your characters might not like cops but as somebody who was a cop IRL, most of the people I interacted with didn't treat me with the disrespect I see on this server, even if they were going to jail. Most people wanted to be as nice as they could to me so that I'd leave and they could go back to their business. That or they really needed my help. Illegal RPers shouldn't be looking to shoot cops just to get out of a small sentence or a traffic citation and should also stop with the "I'm a legal expert even though I'm a three-time convicted felon and 16 years old" type RP that makes little to no sense. I've been killed twice this week by illegal RPers who, if they'd have just RPed with me, would have been let go. The first killed me, got killed, accepted death and ran off to get another gun with his two day old PF license. The second was a traffic stop where three people got out and killed me, chased the other unit I was with down the road while shooting, killed the other unit, ran off and logged to avoid responding units. This type of RP does nothing to create respect between illegal and legal RPers and these are just two situations I was involved in. Again, this isn't me pointing fingers, it's me trying to voice my concerns and hope that other people who care will help me in bettering the RP for both sides. 

 

I truly do care about both sides here. Without good illegal RPers, no point in having cops. Without good cops, no real point for illegal RPers. We need each other and not only that, we need to be able to count on the fact that the person we're RPing with isn't gonna pull some noob shit out of their ass and mess our RP up. Please use this thread to post suggestions on how to better both sides. Please make sure that your suggestions are fair, respectful and address real issues. This thread is not a place to argue. People should list their point of view, support it with evidence if possible and allow others to respond in kind. Please try to avoid repetitive discussion when it's clear the other person has no intention of changing their opinion. Hopefully community leadership can use this thread for ideas on how to better the situation for everybody.

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"it's always "fuck twelve" or whatever. I get that your characters might not like cops but as somebody who was a cop IRL, most of the people I interacted with didn't treat me with the disrespect I see on this server, even if they were going to jail. Most people wanted to be as nice as they could to me so that I'd leave and they could go back to their business. "

I am very curious, but does one labour within high-crime rate and gang-infested regions of U.S.? As a former gang member, members of lower-tier street gangs would more than likely display major discontent and opposition towards Law enforcement officers, even within their presence. However, independent narcotics dealers and consumers were the ones that would play "nice guy" to evade undergoing charges. Major difference in responses between "gang members" and "independent criminals", as most lower-tier gangs promote anti-police statements to display that they are not a snitch. If one is observed "sweet-talking" a Law enforcement officer, then other members may perceive that person to be a weaker link that would eventually snitch on them in the future.

Now, this is Toronto, Canada... Shower Posse mentality heavily promotes either A) Cursing out police or B) Remaining silent. I'm imagining that it's even worst with L.A., Chicago, and Detroit street gangs.

Edited by DLimit
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I'll go ahead and respond to this. This has always been a problem between the Illegal Roleplayers & Legal Roleplayers in general, as every aspect of the server has a different interest. If you're more of a civilian roleplayer who likes the nightlife social roleplay of the server or even the business roleplay for example, your interests are probably going to be just roleplaying a good time in the clubs, maybe making some money with your business, and just in general trying to keep out of trouble with the law and avoid being robbed from the Illegal Roleplayers who may want to steal your car or money. If you're an Illegal Roleplayer, your goal is of course to do illegal things. Whether that's smoking dope or hanging out with the homies on the block, heading out for a drive-by or murder, robbing someone of their items from their house or person, etc. And if you're a law enforcement roleplayer (I'll include FD in this, as they are sorta in this too), your goal is to respond to nine-one-one calls usually involving something an Illegal Roleplayer has done to a Civilian Roleplayer, and go after Illegal Roleplayers who are commiting the majority of the crime on the server which is your IC job to stop, or just provide appropriate rescue roleplay for like gunshot wounds and such that are incurred from incidents involving Illegal Roleplayers. 

 

As you can imagine, all of those aspects of roleplay are very different from each other in goal and they often conflict naturally yet at the same time they are dependent on each other. Without the Civilian Roleplayers, there would be no club and social roleplay which populates a good majority of the city with things to do and attend such as events for the community, and there would be nobody for the Illegal Roleplayers to rob or commit crimes against without too much sector retaliation. Without the Illegal Roleplayers the LEO Roleplayers would have very little to do on the server as there job would be practically down to just becoming glorified parking and traffic enforcement with maybe small incidents popping up now and then which they are needed for dispute resolution, and the Civilian Roleplayers would lose out on opportunities that sometimes illegal roleplayers can actually generate and spur things into action like when the news reports on gang shootings in the hood, or incidents involving the police and a criminal. And without the LEO Roleplayers the Civilians and Illegal Roleplayers would be without a major element that they need to advance their roleplay, as if there is no cops who would respond to the crimes at all? Who would investigate anything you do? And who would provide the server a sort of general IC rule enforcer to keep things around the city orderly which would highly benefit a civilian roleplayer who doesn't want to be living in a city of anarchy? 

 

All of these roles are interconnected, and without each other the server can't function. However, some of the disputes that have happened has lead to distrust between these groups of roleplayers in various sense (In this case I'm talking specifically about LEO Roleplayers and Illegal Roleplayers), that is leading to things like faction reports against each other, OOC drama fests, and in general just outright insults which even if aren't spoken publicly about, are spoken in private by both groups for problems they see on each other. I can speak a lot on problems I can see from my side, but I'm sure there are problems the illegal roleplayers also see from there side. I honestly would like to hear it from the other side, before I just try and ram my own personal opinion from the LEO side as I am a mostly LEO/Legal roleplayer and always have been. At the end of this however, we all are one community in this server. And when one sector of the RP is struggling, we're all going to get the effects. I don't mind IC drama between groups. But OOC drama is just toxic, and doesn't help anyone. I'll open the floor for the Illegal Roleplayers (If they would be so kind to respond), and give us some of their observations before I go more into depth. 

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I was a cop in Florida. Not LA, Chicago or any big place like that. I can't argue that gangs wouldn't be rude to cops. What I can say is, it gets to the point that nothing can get accomplished between the two RPers. If your answer to something my character asks is "fuck you", well my response is likely to be just as ugly. If that's what you're looking for, cool. If you're looking for a cop to give you a break, stop mass patrolling your street, or bothering you in general, you might want to adopt a better attitude. You catch more flys with honey kinda thing, ya know? 

Edited by Copacetic
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7 minutes ago, Copacetic said:

I was a cop in Florida. Not LA, Chicago or any big place like that. I can't argue that gangs wouldn't be rude to cops. What I can say is, it gets to the point that nothing can get accomplished between the two RPers. If your answer to my RP is "fuck you", well my response is likely to be just as ugly. If that's what you're looking for, cool. If you're looking for a cop to give you a break, stop mass patrolling your street, or bothering you in general, you might want to adopt a better attitude. You catch more flys with honey kinda thing, ya know? 

Personal beefs are common between Law enforcement officers and individual gang members within the street. At times, a Law enforcement officer will literally address a person, from the hood, by their full names in order to degrade them in front of their set. It's very common... it's often a personal relationship between repeat offenders and Law enforcement officers. Not arguing against this. In fact, illegal RPers should imitate other sets when it comes to 1vs1 fights etc... rather than complaining about increased police presence. Rather than fighting in the middle of the street, most gang members often produce statements like "Yo, bro, let's take it to the back!" etc... they should handle their business in a private location that is less likely to result in police involvement.

EDIT: In the end, it'd be unintelligent to attract negative attention of Law enforcement officers. Hence, conduct the heavy stuff in private. It'd also be a major life-threatening risk for one to be respectful and compliant with Law enforcement officers in front of your set, as it indicates that you'll be compliant when it comes to snitching during interviews and interrogations. 

The smart gangsta does that... the stupid one fights in the middle of the street... I'm producing this statement as a former I.R.L. member. Any "older head" would portray these characteristics as "hot-headed" as it attracts too much negative attention to the hood.

Good points.

Edited by DLimit
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1 minute ago, DLimit said:

Personal beefs are common between Law enforcement officers and individual gang members within the street. At times, a Law enforcement officer will literally address a person, from the hood, by their full names in order to degrade them in front of their set. It's very common... it's often a personal relationship between repeat offenders and Law enforcement officers. Not arguing against this. In fact, illegal RPers should imitate other sets when it comes to 1vs1 fights etc... rather than complaining about increased police presence. Rather than fighting in the middle of the street, most gang members often produce statements like "Yo, bro, let's take it to the back!" etc... they should handle their business in a private location that is less likely to result in police involvement.

The smart gangsta does that... the stupid one fights in the middle of the street... I'm producing this statement as a former I.R.L. member. Any "older head" would portray these characteristics as "hot-headed" as it attracts too much negative attention to the hood.

Good points.

 

Valid for sure, thanks.

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I think the most significant issue, in my eyes is that PD refuses to show anyone on the street any form of respect. You could be 16 year old affiliate or a 27 year old validated gang member and PD really treats you like just another troublemaker. I posted the video above because I think it's a great example of how you can still do your job as a LEO while showing respect to the people your policing. Even when you know that the person your talking to stands on the opposite end of the law from you. If you give these RPer's the respect they want and RP with them about their ink/affiliation, you'll receive RP and respect back.

 

I'd be curious as to what the LSPD's training is regarding street gangs, IK LSSD teaches some of it during their course however I've seen some pretty serious lapses in judgement when it comes PD identifying and interacting with gang members. 

Edited by Henning
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4 minutes ago, Henning said:

 

I think the most significant issue, in my eyes is that PD refuses to show anyone on the street any form of respect. You could be 16 year old affiliate or a 27 year old validated gang member and PD really treats you like just another troublemaker. I posted the video above because I think it's a great example of how you can still do your job as a LEO while showing respect to the people your policing. Even when you know that the person your talking to stands on the opposite end of the law from you. If you give these RPer's the respect they want and RP with them about their ink/affiliation, you'll receive RP and respect back.

 

Okay, I don't agree with you about PD refusing to show respect but maybe you have a valid point in your last sentence. I as a RPer don't really know anything about the illegal factions on the server. Their ink or social habits included. That's a failure on my part. What I would say is that it takes two to shake hands ...

Edited by Copacetic
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2 minutes ago, Copacetic said:

 

Okay, I don't agree with you about PD refusing to show respect but maybe you have a valid point in your last sentence. I as a RPer don't really know anything about the illegal factions on the server. Their ink or social habits included. That's a failure on my part. What I would say is that it takes two to shake hands ...

 

This is a good video for insight into California DOC, Prison gangs and how larger criminal entities such as the Aryan Brotherhood and the Mexican Mafia operate. If you don't find it useful for your character, you'll most likely find it interesting as a LEO.

 

I guess when I talk about respect it would be best if I gave an example from my own experience on the server playing a PENI gang member. PENI is an incredibly violent gang with affiliation to the Aryan Brotherhood. They are based in and around LA/Long beach and their tattoo's, while they might not be specifically identified by a beat cop in the LSPD, should warrant at least some questions. I always made sure to make my ink known so that PD could appropriately adjust their RP. Thing is? Not a single cop would acknowledge my tattoo's, they wouldn't even ask what they were. 

 

For an illegal RPer who has put hours and hours into researching these topics? It's really disconcerting for RP that I'm literally handing to you on a silver platter to be ignored, if you follow the RP? Treat me like the cop in the previous video I linked? LSPD would probably uncover a lot more about LS's criminal scene and would probably able to police it better as well.

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1 hour ago, Henning said:

 

This is a good video for insight into California DOC, Prison gangs and how larger criminal entities such as the Aryan Brotherhood and the Mexican Mafia operate. If you don't find it useful for your character, you'll most likely find it interesting as a LEO.

 

I guess when I talk about respect it would be best if I gave an example from my own experience on the server playing a PENI gang member. PENI is an incredibly violent gang with affiliation to the Aryan Brotherhood. They are based in and around LA/Long beach and their tattoo's, while they might not be specifically identified by a beat cop in the LSPD, should warrant at least some questions. I always made sure to make my ink known so that PD could appropriately adjust their RP. Thing is? Not a single cop would acknowledge my tattoo's, they wouldn't even ask what they were. 

 

For an illegal RPer who has put hours and hours into researching these topics? It's really disconcerting for RP that I'm literally handing to you on a silver platter to be ignored, if you follow the RP? Treat me like the cop in the previous video I linked? LSPD would probably uncover a lot more about LS's criminal scene and would probably able to police it better as well.

I agree with you on this, however, there is an issue on both sides of the fence. There are plenty of illegal RPers who make the same mistake as the LEO RPers do. I myself have had almost only good experiences with the police on the server, but I've also had surprisingly few encounters with them. 

 

But yeah, it is very annoying and immersion breaking when you get cops who are disrespectful or fail to roleplay fear when interacting with a known violent gang. If it's your first day on the force and your character is trying to prove something, then sure, that's understandable.

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