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Realistic Legal and Illegal RP


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Isn’t it kind of a conflicting point saying that PD’s fear RP is abysmal, but also complaining when PD brings 3-4 cruisers to every situation?

 

If I was an officer who feared for my life, I’d like some backup so the guy I pulled over doesnt shoot me because he has dope in the car.

 

It’s not inherently unrealistic either.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/383681/


https://www.lsureveille.com/daily/opinion-police-training-in-us-makes-officers-paranoid-fearful/article_03eab8f2-c777-11e4-b2e4-a7fdef82b793.html

 

And Officers totally can arrest you over insults. Yeah it’s unconstitutional, but it happens. Cops in the US are very... whats the phrase... hit or miss?

Edited by KinnyWynny
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Generally, insults against police officers are protected by the 1st Amendment so long as they are not construed as a threat towards the officer. However, they can still easily find a way to arrest you be it through disorderly conduct, obstruction or similar charge depending on the situation. Generally an average to decent lawyer will be able to fight those charges, especially if they were just over petty insults. So long as they can't be perceived as an actual threat towards the officer, there shouldn't be any major charges. Still doesn't change the fact that they can find a way to arrest you over little things, so yes it's very possible to happen. Many times its done just to make your life more difficult for giving them trouble, but this does happen in real life. Happens all the time.

 

This is not a dig towards PD officers in the server, just laying out some general information to raise awareness on a topic being discussed.

Edited by Giles
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40 minutes ago, sio said:

It's been talked about before in the thread, but six officers showing up to deal with one homeless shoplifter is very much a thing that happens (I was there for that, I was the cashier of the store that was getting pickpocketed). Or having to call in 3-4 extra cruisers as backup for pulling over random mallrats. I think that the police would be better off if they tempered their expecations, as Henning said above.

Just a few examples I wanted to add.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/02/los-angeles-police-shoot-dead-homeless-man-grabbed-gun

 

https://www.laweekly.com/the-militarization-of-police-started-in-los-angeles/

 

 

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9 minutes ago, KinnyWynny said:

I've evaded once during my character's lifetime, and that evasion wasn't even a mile and involved a DUI and drug charges. As a result, every time I'm pulled over I have a police helicopter, an interceptor, a K9 truck and DRE on primary conctact. It doesn't really bother me, I only find it kind of unrealistic on account of the resource cost but beyond that they don't cost any money IG, so why shouldn't they be able to use them? The point I'm making here is that in this scenario the police is deploying resources to prevent escape instead of stacking resources to respond with repression. 

 

Why isn't that done in Chamberlain? If I'm stopped the police pull everything out to prevent something, but they maintain a reactive response in south central. Acknowledging their OOC purpose, IC the police are here to enforce the law, if you break the law they aren't suppose to let you get away with it. You don't simply walk up to a person and shoot them in the face without any regards for the world around you and think nothing is going to happen to you. But that's exactly what happens, because the police just pretend like it's normal and kind of only react to what they register. Crime is with risk and people doing crime should calculate that risk, but there isn't any real risk. Not that I experience. Shooting people is too easy to get away with, even with the forensic script. It is quite obvious you don't have to calculate anything at all and just have to make sure a car doesn't drive past while you're doing your crime spree assuming that the police would kindly wave at you as you pass by. It's a general fact that you don't fuck with the government and the law because they will fuck you over in the most worst possible way. Why isn't that extended to urban enforcement? So what ever happened to subtle crime and covert ends? If you want to blow shit up and go wild like Jesse James then you should expect being butt-fucked by various agencies, yet you aren't. 
 

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53 minutes ago, sio said:

This is a very valid point! Don't police prefer to de-escalate and then respond accordingly? Naturally I'm not a police officer, but that's what I would assume. I'm reminded of an event I once witnessed: now, the area in the UK that I live has had a very historic dislike for the police institution here to the point where youths (aged 13-19) will throw rocks, mud, and sometimes fireworks at armored police vans. I have never once seen the police react back to this in an aggressive manner, infact, once they complete their business in that neighborhood they usually just leave.

 

I feel like if that happened on GTAW the police would brandish shotguns or rubber bullets and start firing, or stage a mass arrest. Or simply try to posture with fancy militarized equipment.

 

Now, I understand that we are dealing with an equivalent to the real life LAPD and Sheriff organization for our fictional Los Santos but.. it does come to the point where the police are so focused on being perfect OOC so everything must have an over the top response, and every little provacation is cause for an arrest or detainment.. I've seen people arrested for insulting police officers, for Christsakes. Once again, not American, but I'm pretty sure that's unconstitunional.

 

generally speaking, law enforcement trains their officers to deescalate. although there is plenty of evidence suggesting LEOs (all over the world) still respond to hostility in kind, ranging from verbally antagonizing a person, or writing a citation were, had the person been more cordial, there would be none, all the way to outright physical aggression. 

 

also: comparing UK to american law enforcement isn't reasonable, they're wildly different. 

 

lastly, cussing out LEOs isn't illegal, but it should come as no surprise that things can easily be misconstrued in order to fabricate grounds to detain/arrest. one of the reasons why many people in the States are afraid of the police, or at the very least, don't want anything to do with the police. i'm not saying every officer behaves that way, but it's certainly not unheard of, and has more to do with how a character's portrayed, as opposed to any OOC agenda.

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There's several reasons why almost every murder, shooting, etc goes unsolved to give an answer to whats his face's criticism, im also going to drop my two cents into the problems we have from a PD view point, keep in mind this is just my viewpoint not the viewpoint of the PD, I could just be the solo salty boi out of everyone:

 

1. If its gang v. gang we never get any information that could possibly lead to any suspect b/c boooo snitching.

2. Most times people committing the attack are wearing complete body covering outfits with stylish pew pew masks making the chances of giving us a decent description close to 0. 

3. The vehicles used to commit drivebys are never seen for some reason, or if they are we never get a good description in time and rarely if ever get any license plate info. 

4. Casings are useless unless we end up having a suspect with a gun on them which we can compare to.

5. If we end up getting any decent info the people or person involved has usually returned to their home, parked the pew pew car and changed outfits.

6. No working CCTV cameras in a metropolitan area or on any businesses outside because this may be 2020 but idk fuck cameras I guess theyre silly. So good luck ever being able to get recordings of the events. 

7. The sound of gunfire goes whacky crazy from anything greater than a block or so and makes triangulation of the shooters a scooby doo mystery which is another reason theres always so many cops in areas with high rates of gun crime, we need that many because as they all converge towards the sounds of edgy shooty shoot bang usually one cop finds the shooters and then everyone goes to said cop to assist in the enjoyable chuckee cheese event known as shrapnel parties. 

8. Dead bodies reported to the police may as well be roadkilled racoons at this point, usually no ID on the victim because we cant check their body, casings are either gone, picked up, or idk they fly away to migrate I guess. But that wouldnt make a difference either tbh because we need a suspect and a gun to even make those things useful because we cant check casings for prints. Oh and no matter if the suspect was injured and bled a bit, theres no way of seeing blood samples from anyone to collect for DNA testing.

9. Depending on the time of day and location of the crime, usually 10 minutes after attempting to start an investigation or maybe 20 minutes, we have more active shots fired or another 911 call and due lack of officers for the insane amount of crime, we have to just say fuck it sometimes and leave a scene because some 15 y/o kid whos moms a whore and whos dad went for cigarettes 14 years ago and has a record longer than the bible might be getting shot at by another 15 y/o poverty stricken sob story that wears blue instead of red. 

 

I could go on but yeah its a fucked situation all around, I hate being in South LS. Everytime I have to respond to a call there because im legally obligated to I immediately have to switch to fuck you im the police mode because in my head im remembering that in just the last 4 days alone we've had probably 4 PD and some other number of SD get blasted through their windshields for trying to hand out tickets to people that appear to have either never driven before or drive while under the influence of pop rocks in their brain mixed with meth, why the fuck would I take a chance that some ganbanging 12 year old wont drop a fat dump of 9mm through my skull because any interaction with cops = reason to pewpew b/c gangbanger. Of course my character and everyone else who's spent whole play sessions during shit tier days in South LS isnt going to be Scruff McGruff level considerate towarda any of these people, of course were going to show up with big shooty shoots and lots of officers who just want to leave as soon as possible, how can you blame them? Oh and gang shutting down? Members CK'd or in prison? Doesn't matter, either people just NC and keep all their shit and are out on the streets again immediately to begin their holy jihad, or another gang just pops up out of nowhere that we've never heard of before and because theyre new, theyre usually ten times more violent and reckless because street cred is worth more than idk, brain function. 

 

Edit: still fun tho which is the real problem, gotta make it less fun.

Edited by Boland
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3 minutes ago, Boland said:

1. If its gang v. gang we never get any information that could possibly lead to any suspect b/c boooo snitching.

 

Every crime is party v. party, respectively your criminal investigation shouldn't stand on witness statements alone. 

4 minutes ago, Boland said:

 2. Most times people committing the attack are wearing complete body covering outfits with stylish pew pew masks making the chances of giving us a decent description close to 0. 

 

A lot of homicides come up with a suspect description that is less than descriptive. This shouldn't stop you from profiling people and using modern forensic and investigative tools instead of going "NO DESCRIPTION, CLEAR SCENE CODE 4"

4 minutes ago, Boland said:

 3. The vehicles used to commit drivebys are never seen for some reason, or if they are we never get a good description in time and rarely if ever get any license plate info. 

 

Same as 2.

5 minutes ago, Boland said:

 4. Casings are useless unless we end up having a suspect with a gun on them which we can compare to.

 

The forensic script is lacking significantly, but this shouldn't stop you from using valuable crime data.

6 minutes ago, Boland said:

 5. If we end up getting any decent info the people or person involved has usually returned to their home, parked the pew pew car and changed outfits.

 

Your criminal investigation shouldn't be based on red-handed convictions.

7 minutes ago, Boland said:

 6. No working CCTV cameras in a metropolitan area or on any businesses outside because this may be 2020 but idk fuck cameras I guess theyre silly. So good luck ever being able to get recordings of the events. 

 

This is a legitimate issue, city officials should be able to file for government CCTV that is enforced by rules to simulate their viability.

8 minutes ago, Boland said:

 7. The sound of gunfire goes whacky crazy from anything greater than a block or so and makes triangulation of the shooters a scooby doo mystery which is another reason theres always so many cops in areas with high rates of gun crime, we need that many because as they all converge towards the sounds of edgy shooty shoot bang usually one cop finds the shooters and then everyone goes to said cop to assist in the enjoyable chuckee cheese event known as shrapnel parties. 

 

A sad but incredibly well formulated example of police adaptation to the game environment and enforcement response, why isn't this flexibility and ingenuity applied to criminal investigations?

9 minutes ago, Boland said:

 8. Dead bodies reported to the police may as well be roadkilled racoons at this point, usually no ID on the victim because we cant check their body, casings are either gone, picked up, or idk they fly away to migrate I guess. But that wouldnt make a difference either tbh because we need a suspect and a gun to even make those things useful because we cant check casings for prints. Oh and no matter if the suspect was injured and bled a bit, theres no way of seeing blood samples from anyone to collect for DNA testing.

 

Same as 4. 

10 minutes ago, Boland said:

 9. Depending on the time of day and location of the crime, usually 10 minutes after attempting to start an investigation or maybe 20 minutes, we have more active shots fired or another 911 call and due lack of officers for the insane amount of crime, we have to just say fuck it sometimes and leave a scene because some 15 y/o kid whos moms a whore and whos dad went for cigarettes 14 years ago and has a record longer than the bible might be getting shot at by another 15 y/o poverty stricken sob story that wears blue instead of red. 

 

Are you a detective or a patrol officer? Either way, having to respond to calls will significantly hamper your ability to dedicate time and effort to a case. Case prioritization is realistic though, not all homicides IRL are fully investigated so why would they be on GTA:W? Some homicides take priority over others, whether this is due to the difficulty of the investigation or the evidence it's up to the LSPD to have a classification system. If the LSPD doesn't have a proper classification system that's just poor design on their part. 

 

Furthermore, it'd be fantastic if the investigative branch of the LSPD would consider consulting with the DA prior to pressing charges. There are too many instances of detectives filing charges while still investigating a crime and having no evidence what-so-ever resulting in significant issues with the prosecutions. No prosecutor should have to sit in court and explain to the judge the police are still investigating the matter regarding the accused's charges.

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I see a lot of the issues are stemming from 'this is a dangerous area, so we patrol here more'. While this is true in some case, the areas that I've seen patrolled recently have died down dramatically compared to areas that aren't patrolled as much. This is just from my perspective as a criminal RPer, however; as I'm sure those that play as PD (ect.) still deal with issues in all sections. 

 

When it comes to the gun fire being a little screwy, I agree with that playing a factor- having been pulled over at gun point several times for being in an area that gun fire was heard coming from, when on my end it was silent. 

 

As far as how police carry themselves in harsher areas, it can be a bit much at times, like showing up to check on a parolee with a shotgun in hand (only saw this once), or three squad cars pulling over for a single vehicle traffic stop. While it's a plus for safety purposes, PD could travel in twos instead of the majority of officers having their own personal vehicle. I think that this would limit their chances of being attacked on said stops- or at least help with the outcome. I was told by an officer that most of the PD players don't want to ride with a partner, but it would benefit them in both a development and safety, and limit the issue of excessive amounts of vehicles per minor occurance.

 

 

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Plus the fact almost every update seems to be for PD. Even the ones that are presented to look like it’s for everyone are actually more beneficial to PD. So from most peoples perspective Admins, developers and gta w in general is beneficial to PD over the rest of us and even biased sometimes.

 

This is the main problem, when people see a new PD car every week but we have been promised a new drug system for a year now? Kinda shows why people are beginning to dislike PD.

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5 minutes ago, Shekh said:

Plus the fact almost every update seems to be for PD. Even the ones that are presented to look like it’s for everyone are actually more beneficial to PD. So from most peoples perspective Admins, developers and gta w in general is beneficial to PD over the rest of us and even biased sometimes.

 

This is the main problem, when people see a new PD car every week but we have been promised a new drug system for a year now? Kinda shows why people are beginning to dislike PD.

 

Would much rather see some development put into the drug system. It would actually give players an incentive to do more then the occasional drug deal or robbery/shooting which in turn would give PD something they can investigate and sink their teeth into.

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