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Realistic Legal and Illegal RP


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We’ve had a few reports about this thread so I’m dropping in to remind everyone to be fair and constructive. The point of this thread is to suggest improvements on both sides, and shouldn’t devolve into an argument.

Its important to remember that there are issues on both sides.

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7 minutes ago, PRESCRIPTION said:

Problem is, and it's evident in all the posts, you're all acting PD vs illegal roleplay. There's just as many culprits of PG, MG, unrealistic etc on both sides. Yes, there's "robo-cops" but there's also illegal roleplayers who are screaming "Fuck twelve, police killa!" at passing cruisers and then complaining when they get police attention. 

None of us said we didn’t have any bad apples,  Think of the game your playing? Grand Theft Auto. It’s inherent that a lot of players (especially new and inexperienced players who don’t have a great grasp on “serious” RP) would be draw towards illegalRP. But there’s a significant fact that your not taking into account.

 

WE are at THEIR mercy not the other way around. If PD stops you? Your forced to interact with them just like in real life. but unlike real life, the PD on this server for the most part plays like robocops unless in their person circles. There is no personality it’s an us VS them mentality, even worse it’s a we must win mentality. Which completely destroys the whole concept of Roleplay. And compounded by a lacking of fundamental the US Civil rights but an abundance of knowledge about Supreme Court law (maybe that’s the term? Idk PD likes to quote IRL court cases anytime it gets called out.)
 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Henning said:

None of us said we didn’t have any bad apples,  Think of the game your playing? Grand Theft Auto. It’s inherent that a lot of players (especially new and inexperienced players who don’t have a great grasp on “serious” RP) would be draw towards illegalRP. But there’s a significant fact that your not taking into account.

 

WE are at THEIR mercy not the other way around. If PD stops you? Your forced to interact with them just like in real life. but unlike real life, the PD on this server for the most part plays like robocops unless in their person circles. There is no personality it’s an us VS them mentality, even worse it’s a we must win mentality. Which completely destroys the whole concept of Roleplay. And compounded by a lacking of fundamental the US Civil rights but an abundance of knowledge about Supreme Court law (maybe that’s the term? Idk PD likes to quote IRL court cases anytime it gets called out.)
 

 

 

 

I don't know man, you must've just had some bad clashes. I haven't been here long but all of my personal cases have been pretty good to be honest, from both "sides" of roleplay. That's just what it boils down too, peoples different experiences. I think though personally people complain about "they have no guns to lose, we have things to lose" is an irrelevant point. You should be scared of just dying not losing OOC assets and so should the police. The police are definitely fearful of dying too. It looks bad if you die and you're out of duty and have to go back to the PD etc.... It's not the same collateral but atleast neither side wants to die. PD just have things in the script you can point at and shout "unfair" at. Which is good, for someone that is mainly an illegal RP and is only experiencing legal now (also not an LEO), I can tell you it should be that way. It's unfair in real life too, isn't it? Police aren't gonna lose their guns irl, or pay for their car damages or anything like that. They still care about living. The point I'm making shortened is if everyone was worried about dying ICly regardless of their OOC penalty then we'd be better off. You're telling me that criminals don't go, "ah fuck it" and unload on 50 police officers when they're alone to get out of situations some times? Just to get out of an OOC sentence?

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The problem here is when people say it is bad apples. Lets be real here, it is atleast half. If we pretend like this isn’t an issue it will never be solved. I’m not saying the majority of PD do this but a VERY big portion do. It is something they need to solve, many members of gta w community have been saying PD needs reforms because it is getting ridiculous. I’m not saying kick everyone out and start from fresh, but something needs to be done and lines and borders must be set, especially with things like char dev and the use of voice communications.

Edited by Shekh
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2 hours ago, Shekh said:

PD cruise through the south LS every 2 mins, and they even used to camp on forum drive when i used to rp there. Like legit just cut the engine and sit on the street waiting for a crime.

And @Henning


As I have zero experience in Illegal RP please help educate me on this, if you could. These areas that are heavy gang territories where police patrol through often, would there not be non-gang related people living in these areas too? Low income areas tend to attract a lot of people, not just gang related people. Wouldn't it be safe to say that they are patrolling so often because that would realistically be an area where a lot of people live, that aren't necessarily just gang related people? PD would certainly know its a heavy gang area through past reports/incidents/etc. and remaining close would be for the protection of those people as well, would it not?

 

Now I'm not saying they should be parking their cars and turning their engines off because that's just dangerous in an area like that. In real life, cops can get shot right in their cars doing that in the wrong area with the wrong people. I knew a Miami PD officer who was shot dead in his car just sitting on the street like that. There should be some proper fear RP in that regard. I would not be against pushing for a CK on a police officer if they decided to just park their car and turn the engine off in such a heavy gang related territory because that's just stupid and shows no value of life.

 

Just trying to think objectively here, so please chime in.

Edited by Giles
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22 minutes ago, Shekh said:

The problem here is when people say it is bad apples. Lets be real here, it is atleast half. If we pretend like this isn’t an issue it will never be solved. I’m not saying the majority of PD do this but a VERY big portion do. It is something they need to solve, many members of gta w community have been saying PD needs reforms because it is getting ridiculous. I’m not saying kick everyone out and start from fresh, but something needs to be done and lines and borders must be set, especially with things like char dev and the use of voice communications.

Can you please provide some examples of "reforms," that have been talked about? I am curious to see exactly what they believe should be reformed at least with PD here, to see how this side of roleplay views the other side. 

Edited by Brett
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38 minutes ago, Giles said:

And @Henning


As I have zero experience in Illegal RP please help educate me on this, if you could. These areas that are heavy gang territories where police patrol through often, would there not be non-gang related people living in these areas too? Low income areas tend to attract a lot of people, not just gang related people. Wouldn't it be safe to say that they are patrolling so often because that would realistically be an area where a lot of people live, that aren't necessarily just gang related people? PD would certainly know its a heavy gang area through past reports/incidents/etc. and remaining close would be for the protection of those people as well, would it not?

 

Now I'm not saying they should be parking their cars and turning their engines off because that's just dangerous in an area like that. In real life, cops can get shot right in their cars doing that in the wrong area with the wrong people. I knew a Miami PD officer who was shot dead in his car just sitting on the street like that. There should be some proper fear RP in that regard. I would not be against pushing for a CK on a police officer if they decided to just park their car and turn the engine off in such a heavy gang related territory because that's just stupid and shows no value of life.

 

Just trying to think objectively here, so please chime in.

You raise some valid points, I appreciate your constructive approach.

 

Your right that with a hypothetical civilian population living in South Central alongside the players that make up the civilians AND gangbangers already on server, it makes sense considering the high volume of shootings at this time that PD would have increased patrols in the area.

 

however as stated in the OP, PD needs to give these factions and players room to breathe and grow. The fact is there is a very little for civilian population in the south side (although the recent crip faction seems to be doing some things to change that) and without PD RPing this hypothetical civilian population, they treat every player like a suspect.
 

Walking down the street? Warrants a slow down.

 

chilling outside your house? “Speedtraps” so they can watch you.

 

Its unfair to the criminal RPers, especially smaller factions and players just starting, to be under the constant scrutiny of PD because there aren’t any civilians to make you blend in.

 

However I think the PD is going to start becoming stretched very thin, “Gang” factions are now located in Vespucci, Vinewood, Del Perro, and Morningwood. Alongside pretty developed OC factions in Vinewood, Vespucci Morningwood and Little Seoul. 
 

The “fear” RP PD has been showing has been abysmal recently. They’ll watch you from across the street and as soon as you walk towards them they’ll speed off, making them more of an annoyance then another person your RPing with, fear or not. Oh and how about PD just automatically having AR’s out in every situation on the south side? That’s entirely unrealistic, your not gonna approach EVERY situation with an AR. You realize how upset that would make the civilian population? I’m surprised there haven’t been more IC riots.

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27 minutes ago, Henning said:

however as stated in the OP, PD needs to give these factions and players room to breathe and grow. The fact is there is a very little for civilian population in the south side (although the recent crip faction seems to be doing some things to change that) and without PD RPing this hypothetical civilian population, they treat every player like a suspect.

 

Walking down the street? Warrants a slow down.

 

chilling outside your house? “Speedtraps” so they can watch you.

 

Its unfair to the criminal RPers, especially smaller factions and players just starting, to be under the constant scrutiny of PD because there aren’t any civilians to make you blend in.

Maybe this is something that should be discussed further then with the LEO side of things, constructively of course. I don't know quite know what their internal rules are with regards to the above stated hypothetical population. I feel that they shouldn't be approaching the area as if there are only gang members. A high concentration, sure, but not 100% gang members. This should be taken into account when riding through an area and enforced through faction management and role play quality standards. As you said, there should be some room to breathe and grow, within limits of course.

 

To address your other points though, the slow downs are very common in high crime areas and even in lower crime areas. I used to live in a more affluent neighborhood in southern Florida and a cop followed me into my own neighborhood because it was 4 in the morning, even lighting me up to ask what I was doing driving around the area lol. That happens all too often.

 

I understand your points though and I agree that there should be some discussion about the fact that there aren't a lot of civilians in the area, but PD should be role playing as such and allow people to go on with their lives accordingly. Not everyone who lives in the area should be regarded as a gang member right off the bat. I'm not suggesting PD officers purposefully act naive or clueless, but show some discretion for the sake of building potential RP between legal / illegal RP'ers in the area outside of shootout after shootout.

 

I think this goes in line with a suggested idea for PD officers to have larger knowledge of the gangs that operate in the area (related tattoos presented in RP, areas of operation, turf, etc). IC'ly, gang units & detectives should be having meetings with patrol officers to discuss these things and keep them more informed, on a need to know basis of course. Just enough so that they aren't clueless. IRL, this is sometimes called Roll Call, where all officers on shift meet and someone addresses them with specific subjects to work on, think about, etc. LEO members please chime in here if this is already done. I honestly do not know.

Edited by Giles
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I think the main issue is that because there isn't an "application" to become an illegal RPer (AKA anyone can buy drugs, buy a gun, mug someone, or assault a person if their RP is bare minimum) you are more likely to run into bad roleplayers on the criminal side of things, however, the LEO factions have a "barrier for entry" and I think that people expect more of them for that. As someone who has mostly played a civilian on GTAW my interaction with the police has been very hit or miss. They are either extremely talented RPers who understand that they are playing a character and not a videogame or people who can certainly spell and are literate but completely miss the point of storytelling - who are in it to win, which is why they approach every situation with an unfair amount of force.

 

It's been talked about before in the thread, but six officers showing up to deal with one homeless shoplifter is very much a thing that happens (I was there for that, I was the cashier of the store that was getting pickpocketed). Or having to call in 3-4 extra cruisers as backup for pulling over random mallrats. I think that the police would be better off if they tempered their expecations, as Henning said above me:
 

15 minutes ago, Henning said:

The “fear” RP PD has been showing has been abysmal recently. They’ll watch you from across the street and as soon as you walk towards them they’ll speed off, making them more of an annoyance then another person your RPing with, fear or not. Oh and how about PD just automatically having AR’s out in every situation on the south side? That’s entirely unrealistic, your not gonna approach EVERY situation with an AR. You realize how upset that would make the civilian population? I’m surprised there haven’t been more IC riots.

 

This is a very valid point! Don't police prefer to de-escalate and then respond accordingly? Naturally I'm not a police officer, but that's what I would assume. I'm reminded of an event I once witnessed: now, the area in the UK that I live has had a very historic dislike for the police institution here to the point where youths (aged 13-19) will throw rocks, mud, and sometimes fireworks at armored police vans. I have never once seen the police react back to this in an aggressive manner, infact, once they complete their business in that neighborhood they usually just leave.

 

I feel like if that happened on GTAW the police would brandish shotguns or rubber bullets and start firing, or stage a mass arrest. Or simply try to posture with fancy militarized equipment.

 

Now, I understand that we are dealing with an equivalent to the real life LAPD and Sheriff organization for our fictional Los Santos but.. it does come to the point where the police are so focused on being perfect OOC so everything must have an over the top response, and every little provacation is cause for an arrest or detainment.. I've seen people arrested for insulting police officers, for Christsakes. Once again, not American, but I'm pretty sure that's unconstitunional.

 

Also, as I've said, criminal factions aren't perfect either: gangbangers are overly sensitive dumbasses who get themselves into trouble over dumb shit like Facebrowser beef. I've seen criminals deliberately target people who fit the "mallrat" bill just because of the general OOC dislike of those types of characters.. it certainly isn't realistic, and I know a lot of people who are guilty of both this and copbaiting because they are bored. Obviously criminals need to temper themselves too, more fists and less bullets. Beat someone up instead of shooting them, that way the RP goes on longer and IC resentment actually builds up rather than drama that amounts to:

 

"someone shittalks on Facebrowser, they get killed for it, cops turn the corner and arrest/shoot the suspect, rinse and repeat" - obviously this doesn't apply to criminals who are entrenched in storylines. Basically I feel like all the "gang gang do drugs fuck bitches" types go out of their way to antagonize literally anyone they come across who isn't in their gang or isn't their friend OOC. It's fucking annoying.

 

I can't really add anything else that Henning hasn't already said, this is just based on my experience of silently watching both sides since August 2019.

Edited by sio
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Alright boys and girls. I'm so happy that this thread has received the attention it has. That being said, it's important for us all to remember that this isn't a bash thread meant to point out every perceived wrong doing by either side. The goal of this thread is for people to recognize an issue and provide a solution for that listed issue. Your answers should be well thought out, constructive, and simple if possible. The goal is to use this thread to improve, not just list issues. 

 

Some things I've gathered;

1. Focus more on RPing a character on both sides

2. PD and SD shouldn't over saturate scenes unless it's for dangerous/major situations

3. Criminals should focus a little more on portraying a realistic attitude towards crime and getting caught. 

4. Your newly formed gang doesn't have street cred and you shouldn't act like it does. Earn the respect and fear you want people to show you, don't expect it. 

5. RESPECT EACH OTHER OOCLY AND DO YOUR BEST TO CREATE GOOD RP FOR EVERYONE

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