Character Kills

[Sinatra]

2 minutes ago, MalteseWolf said:

Let's get rid of guns all together than shall we? Nobody has a gun in game, so nobody can get into a shootout with the police because that never happens irl right?

What you're trying to claim is it's unfair to punish people with CK's if they die, correct? Of course shootouts happen IRL, nobody's saying don't get into shoot outs with cops. There has to be a very understanding line between LEO's and criminals that if you die, you die. You're commenting things and blowing stuff way out of proportion that have 0 relevance to the rule that's even being proposed, nobody said anything about forced CK's every time your character dies. Guns are flooded through America  and generally, people are killed once they start shooting at police. Have a gun if you want, shoot at cops if you want, but the player has to be cautious that there is consequences and they will be held accountable for there actions and it won't be as easy as just re-spawning with losing a couple hundred dollars.

[MalteseWolf]

5 minutes ago, Young Sinatra said:

What you're trying to claim is it's unfair to punish people with CK's if they die, correct? Of course shootouts happen IRL, nobody's saying don't get into shoot outs with cops. There has to be a very understanding line between LEO's and criminals that if you die, you die. You're commenting things and blowing stuff way out of proportion that have 0 relevance to the rule that's even being proposed, nobody said anything about forced CK's every time your character dies. Guns are flooded through America  and generally, people are killed once they start shooting at police. Have a gun if you want, shoot at cops if you want, but the player has to be cautious that there is consequences and they will be held accountable for there actions and it won't be as easy as just re-spawning with losing a couple hundred dollars.

No I am claiming that it is unfair to pigeonhole everyone into a specific person's idea of realism and consequence. That crazy things happen IRL and while yes, they often lead to death, that doesn't always make sense in a fictional story setting, such as roleplay.

 

You say you want to enhance prison rp and consequence. Can you please explain how forcing CKs on cops and robbers involved in a shootout helps do that exactly? Will we start rping funerals every time it happens to achieve that end goal, because that sounds extremely grim to me. Yes some people might get into shootouts less, but guess what? People whi just want to shoot stuff will just get an alt or a namechange and go back to doing just that. Out of character slots or not willing to pay for namechanges? Create a whole new account on a different email address and get rewarded with 5k paychecks all over again.

 

You want to enhance prison rp? Simple - people who are killed by cops do not respawn in normal hospital but in a prison hospital where they will be recovering and serving their sentence all at once. Ta dah, rp is generated and nobody has to lose a character they aren't willing to part with yet just for acting as they think said character would.

[Davis]

54 minutes ago, MalteseWolf said:

No I am claiming that it is unfair to pigeonhole everyone into a specific person's idea of realism and consequence. That crazy things happen IRL and while yes, they often lead to death, that doesn't always make sense in a fictional story setting, such as roleplay.

 

You say you want to enhance prison rp and consequence. Can you please explain how forcing CKs on cops and robbers involved in a shootout helps do that exactly? Will we start rping funerals every time it happens to achieve that end goal, because that sounds extremely grim to me. Yes some people might get into shootouts less, but guess what? People whi just want to shoot stuff will just get an alt or a namechange and go back to doing just that. Out of character slots or not willing to pay for namechanges? Create a whole new account on a different email address and get rewarded with 5k paychecks all over again.

 

You want to enhance prison rp? Simple - people who are killed by cops do not respawn in normal hospital but in a prison hospital where they will be recovering and serving their sentence all at once. Ta dah, rp is generated and nobody has to lose a character they aren't willing to part with yet just for acting as they think said character would.

 

This will be the last post to debate your disagreement on this thread. Your opinion is noted and that's fine, but you're making it sound like this rule change will create mass histaria among the server population and everyone will start making new accounts just to shoot it out with the PD? You're claiming things that weren't even suggested like taking away guns and forcing CK's on people who crash cars. Exaggerating points like that only make it seem like you're unable to have a civilized debate in this thread. I understand your point of view, you're attached to your character and don't want to lose it in the suggested scenario's but the whole purpose of the suggestion was to introduce consequences, and based off of how much you've displayed you disagree with this idea, I've clearly found a consequence that scares the average role-player.

 

Maybe your character should think a bit harder about his shootouts with PD and go beyond;

 

Quote

 

1) had a good chance at escape

and/or

2) is being caught red-handed committing a crime that'd realistically result in a lifetime in jail

 

 

Because if you ask me, what any criminal would be thinking is if he'll even make it out alive. And maybe if you as a player know you could lose your character, you'll actually stop and role-play that fear instead of having the reassurance you'll respawn after the scenario and can go back to role-playing your life as if it never happened. 

 

This suggestion isn't made to ruin your fun, and that's fine if you think it will I cannot change your opinion. But this suggestion is intended to make players think about vital actions before they commit them by introducing the loss of something far more valuable than IG currency or guns. This idea is a lot more hardcore and I don't deny that what so ever, if you're not for it's fine but like I said keep the blown out of proportion comments and exaggerations off the thread because it derails from what the actual debate is over.

 

I appreciate your input and hope to see some more in the next few weeks from the community. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Davis

[MalteseWolf]

24 minutes ago, Davis said:

 

This will be the last post to debate your disagreement on this thread. Your opinion is noted and that's fine, but you're making it sound like this rule change will create mass histaria among the server population and everyone will start making new accounts just to shoot it out with the PD? You're claiming things that weren't even suggested like taking away guns and forcing CK's on people who crash cars. Exaggerating points like that only make it seem like you're unable to have a civilized debate in this thread. I understand your point of view, you're attached to your character and don't want to lose it in the suggested scenario's but the whole purpose of the suggestion was to introduce consequences, and based off of how much you've displayed you disagree with this idea, I've clearly found a consequence that scares the average role-player.

 

Maybe your character should think a bit harder about his shootouts with PD and go beyond;

 

 

Because if you ask me, what any criminal would be thinking is if he'll even make it out alive. And maybe if you as a player know you could lose your character, you'll actually stop and role-play that fear instead of having the reassurance you'll respawn after the scenario and can go back to role-playing your life as if it never happened. 

 

This suggestion isn't made to ruin your fun, and that's fine if you think it will I cannot change your opinion. But this suggestion is intended to make players think about vital actions before they commit them by introducing the loss of something far more valuable than IG currency or guns. This idea is a lot more hardcore and I don't deny that what so ever, if you're not for it's fine but like I said keep the blown out of proportion comments and exaggerations off the thread because it derails from what the actual debate is over.

 

I appreciate your input and hope to see some more in the next few weeks from the community. 

1) I don't see how any part of the debate we just had was uncivilized.

 

2) As I have stated, my character thinks VERY HARD before getting into any shootout, especially with the PD. In fact it has never happened yet. The scenario I suggested was merely a what-if scenario.

 

3) I am only taking your arguments to their logical conclusion. If the only solution we can come up with to minimize shootouts is forced CKs, and as another thread suggests the only solution we can come up with to reduce drug abuse is more CKs, then the logical next steps would be to apply forced CKs to other behaviour considered "unsavory" or "overused". Sure, the examples I have used might be extremes, but just like a person can die from a gunshot wound IRL, they can die from tripping down the stairs too. So if we're all about realism, why shouldn't that be a thing that is also enforced?

 

4) I have suggested an alternative to forced CKs (people killed by cops are automatically IC jailed), and you did not bother to give feedback on that, choosing instead to try and make me seem like the bad guy here for disagreeing with what I believe is wrong. So yes, I am done responding here myself, and we can agree to disagree.

Edited November 13, 2017 by MalteseWolf

[Michael]

Character Kills have always been so sloppy from the lack of rules regarding them, and a lot of police RP I've seen has been them acting like cowboys because they know even if they die in a shootout they just respawn with their badge and gun. No consequences. I understand people may think a few of these may be a little too rough, but this is just the foundation. Rules can be altered through discussion, such as what Davis later suggested regarding the police CK rule.

 

Quote

I think you raise a valid point, people who make illegal characters just to take down cops should be monitored and maybe some sort of sub rule could be implemented. For example, PD would only be subject to the CK as well if the character has been around for an amount of IRL time, or if it's possible to track the amount of time spent on a character.

And I have to touch on this...

Quote

I have suggested an alternative to forced CKs (people killed by cops are automatically IC jailed), and you did not bother to give feedback on that, choosing instead to try and make me seem like the bad guy here for disagreeing with what I believe is wrong. So yes, I am done responding here myself, and we can agree to disagree.

 

Is this your suggestion thread? No, you can make your own thread if you want to.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Michael

[Cerberus]

3 hours ago, MalteseWolf said:

So would the next step be script-forced CK every time you die from a car crash? Or when a ladder fails to work and your character falls off a high place like an idiot? Or when you're just walking on the street minding your own business and some troll runs you over or the laggy client screws up? Maybe you're caught in crossfire at a 24/7 being robbed. CK then too?

 

It looks like you didn't even read the suggestion. Did you read the suggestion?

[MalteseWolf]

1 hour ago, Drug Related said:

It looks like you didn't even read the suggestion. Did you read the suggestion?

Yes, I read the suggestion. Points 2 AND 3 specifically state that if you get in a gunfight with PD, whether you get shot dead or arrested, a CK is forced upon you.

 

So my question to you is, why should gunfights with PD be singled out as exceptions? Shouldn't the same rule apply to gunfights between mobs or street gangs? Shouldn't the same rule apply when you are shot during a robbery for trying to resist or escape? Or are you somehow suggesting that gunfights against PD are somehow more deadly than other types of gunfights? And by that same logic, why would being run over by a bus be less deadly than being shot? Or an axe lodged halfway down your skull? It makes absolutely no sense that certain deadly actions lead to forced CKs and others do not. So if you think you're going to take realism to the next level by forcing CKs, force them with every death. And wipe away all money, properties and vehicles while you're at it to achieve that "100% fuck you, this is real life" effect.

 

Kudos for trying to pass me off as an idiot just for disagreeing with you though. How very mature. 

[Cerberus]

Except that's not the point of the suggestion at all. You're being ridiculous.

 

 A big part of the suggestion is cutting down on the DM that cops face and the inverse. With this in place, people would think hard before they shoot at police, as it could cost them their character should they get caught, as it should. If you're against this, you'd probably enjoy some kind of cops and robbers server, rather than a heavy roleplay one.

 

I don't know why you're so against this suggestion, or why you fail to see what it's trying to achieve.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Drug Related

[Copacetic]

6 hours ago, MalteseWolf said:

Yes, I read the suggestion. Points 2 AND 3 specifically state that if you get in a gunfight with PD, whether you get shot dead or arrested, a CK is forced upon you.

 

So my question to you is, why should gunfights with PD be singled out as exceptions? Shouldn't the same rule apply to gunfights between mobs or street gangs? Shouldn't the same rule apply when you are shot during a robbery for trying to resist or escape? Or are you somehow suggesting that gunfights against PD are somehow more deadly than other types of gunfights? And by that same logic, why would being run over by a bus be less deadly than being shot? Or an axe lodged halfway down your skull? It makes absolutely no sense that certain deadly actions lead to forced CKs and others do not. So if you think you're going to take realism to the next level by forcing CKs, force them with every death. And wipe away all money, properties and vehicles while you're at it to achieve that "100% fuck you, this is real life" effect.

 

Kudos for trying to pass me off as an idiot just for disagreeing with you though. How very mature. 

Well I think you're being a little asinine about the entire thing. You have the right to disagree but at the same time, you're taking a point that COULD prevent unnecessary DM in regards to LEO shootouts and you're turning it into something far more off putting than the original idea being proposed here. You're doing this because you don't like the idea and you want everybody else to think of the idea as something ridiculous too. I get it, I do. 

 

The point being made in section 2 AND 3 is being made to draw attention to those that shootout with cops every chance they get in order to avoid jail times. It was a HUGE issue in other communities and this community has far greater prison terms than most of those communities did. I don't totally agree with the suggestion either but I'm certainly not gonna make silly points about getting hit by a buss or shot during a robbery. People don't RP getting hit by a buss or shot during a robbery very often in order to get out of jail terms. They shoot cops and force a response that ends in their death. 

 

I don't know the best way to handle non RP behavior or total disregard to characters that people "put so much time, work and effort into" but I do know that it's a massive issue and needs solving and you making comments that draw away from the original points being made is not helping the situation at all. Davis is extreme in the way he thinks about things but you'll find if you look at it closely, he's got a point. 

[MalteseWolf]

First of all, thank you for actually debating with me rather than asking me to "make my own thread" or doubting my ability to read, @Copacetic.

 

I am very much aware that a subset of roleplayers on GTA RP servers often choose to die instead of getting arrested. Although I have never seen it happen here yet myself, I do expect we will have a few instances of it.

 

However what is being suggested here is an extreme that affects everyone and not just these people who act in this Non-RP way. And the above succinctly describes my hang up with something like this being implemented: it is extreme, precocious and open to serious abuse (like what if a crook keeps pestering a cop to incite a gunfight and CK him or vice versa?).

 

Just like other rules, the best ways to enforce this one are:

 

1) Reports and admin punishments that get more serious on repeat offenders. 

2) Minimising the perks garnered from breaking said rule. That is, we think people will fight cops to death to avoid jailtime? Put them in jail anyway (for an even longer time) when they are killed by cops. It can be RPed as PD getting their crook patched up and then arresting them.

Edited November 14, 2017 by MalteseWolf