Discussion: Businesses not RP'ing realistic item price points

[Giles]

Please keep this discussion civil, as I'd rather encourage an open dialog rather than getting this closed in less than 24 hours.

 

Tagging @Keane as this is part of what I feel should be more of a discussion of role play quality, rather than a suggestion. I put it in general so that this could be more of an open discussion rather than just suggesting a concrete rule change in the rules section. Two parts to this issue, one is not portraying the economy correctly and the other is businesses selling items at unrealistic prices because of the business bonus. This may be just me, but I'm going to put this out here anyways.
 

Most businesses (bars, coffee shops, nightclubs, etc.) that have access to the business bonus sell products at or near 100% loss. Why isn't this an issue? Bartenders keep all the money from alcohol sales as their salary for the night. How does that make sense? Beers that sell for $60 in an alcohol store are sold for $30 or less in some places. Coffee shops sell products far below their actual value. For example, coffee shops selling coffees (custom made items) for $4, when they cost more to actually make the item through the custom item script. Donuts and sandwiches being sold for less than $10 when they cost much more than that in a 24/7.

 

Business owners have no care in the world to sell these items at a realistic price point based on the GTAW economy because they don't care about the loss. This is not how businesses are supposed to run, in GTAW or otherwise. I believe this creates confusion as to how this economy works and leads to people expecting real world prices. This is why you see people complain about a $400 door fee, when in actuality $400 is nothing in the GTAW world. This is why you see people complain when a drink is $200 in a bar, because other businesses sell them for much less at a complete loss (because pricing doesn't inherently matter with the business bonus). It's not supposed to be based on a 1:1 real world dollar to GTAW dollar. For me, this is a huge issue and I believe it creates a continuity issue for this economy. If we're role playing inflated incomes (paychecks at $500+ an hour), we should be role playing inflated price points for everything else. If a sandwich costs $90 in a 24/7, it shouldn't be sold for $4 in a business. That's just stupid.

 

It should be one or the other in this case. If GTAW administration is going for an inflated economy where it isn't a 1:1 real world to GTAW dollar ratio, then everything after that should be enforced as a role play quality standard. Businesses should not be selling items at a complete loss, they should be selling at realistic prices based on what they actually bought the item for in order to make a profit. That's how business works. Businesses should not be selling items for real world prices, they should be inflated to what GTAW administration have established as realistic within our in-game economy. If people want real world prices, then the economy needs to be revamped to reflect real world incomes and many other factors (which I don't think is feasible). There needs to be some intervention here as I have seen this get more and more common in-game with expectation of real world pricing, whether it is door fees, drink prices, custom product prices, etc.

 

Discuss.

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Giles

[Zayyy]

The item price (Drinks/eatables) should be cheap. Doesn't really matter if people are paying more for that in 24/7's, i.e [Sandwich].

There's a doorfee of 200/250 minimum in every place. Soo yeah

Edited March 14, 2020 by Zayyy

[Giles]

Just now, Zayyy said:

The item price (Drinks/eatables) should be lower. Doesn't really matter if people are paying more for that in 24/7's, i.e [Sandwich].

There's a doorfee of 200/250 minimum in every place. Soo yeah

That makes no sense. If a business buys a product for $10, they shouldn't sell them for lower regardless of a door fee or not. That's not how a business works at all.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Giles

[Zayyy]

Just now, Giles said:

That makes no sense. If a business buys a product for $10, they shouldn't sell them for lower regardless of a door fee or not. That's now how a business works at all.

It's a game.

[Giles]

30 minutes ago, Zayyy said:

It's a game.

In a heavy RP server portraying a semi-realistic environment. It also has nothing to do with the fact that it's a game. GTAW admins have established the economy in this way and many businesses are not portraying it correctly. They are acting as if it's a real world economy and it's not. It completely messes with the entire ecosystem of how the economy should work.

 

You don't hear people complaining about having to pay $200+ to fill up their vehicles with gas, because that's how every gas station works. It's the norm on the server. There's no choice in that because of the script. I'm simply suggesting this concept be carried over and enforced with business owners to realistically run their business in line with our in-game economy.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Giles

[Trupiano]

27 minutes ago, Giles said:

In a heavy RP server portraying a semi-realistic environment. It also has nothing to do with the fact that it's a game. GTAW admins have established the economy in this way and many businesses are not portraying it correctly. They are acting as if it's a real world economy and it's not. It completely messes with the entire ecosystem of how the economy should work.

I really think your blowing this up into something bigger then it is. I haven't encountered ANY economy problems. I don't quite understand what the actual problem is with people having low prices. They still have to pay employees and in some cases for parts. 

[Shekh]

Difference is a gas station doesnt make entrance fee money. It is about RP in the end. If people want to sell drinks for lower because they dont care about profits then let them be.

 

It seems to me as though you’re some business owner who is angry his competitors are underselling, which seems like an IC problem for you. If not, then this is just tedious and there’s actually nothing that admins should do to change it. I am certain nobody wants or needs a rule/script change surrounding this topic.

[Giles]

33 minutes ago, Henning said:

I really think your blowing this up into something bigger then it is. I haven't encountered ANY economy problems. I don't quite understand what the actual problem is with people having low prices. They still have to pay employees and in some cases for parts. 

The economy is messed up because it's not being enforced with regards to how people portray it. The intent of the economy, as stated many times, was that a GTAW $1 was =/= to a real world $1. The economy is supposed to be inflated, as reflected on the amount of money we earn. We pay $200+ for a tank of gas and a mechanic $5000 to install a set of brakes, yet people complain about having to spend $400 at the door of a business. This problem has been created because the standard of how the economy works, is not being enforced. It is a problem. We are playing one standard in the some parts of the game (mechanics, parts, gas, etc.) but playing a different standard when it comes to businesses.

 

It's the very reason we don't have more creative businesses popping up, where they don't have access to the business bonus. Someone tries to sell something for $200+ and people don't go near it because they think that's "expensive", when in actuality it's not. It creates a bad cycle.

 

26 minutes ago, Shekh said:

Difference is a gas station doesnt make entrance fee money. It is about RP in the end. If people want to sell drinks for lower because they dont care about profits then let them be.

 

It seems to me as though you’re some business owner who is angry his competitors are underselling, which seems like an IC problem for you. If not, then this is just tedious and there’s actually nothing that admins should do to change it. I am certain nobody wants or needs a rule/script change surrounding this topic.

This is supposed to be a heavy RP server, no? How can you expect people to be realistic in certain situations but then completely unrealistic in others? It's a double standard. Selling products at a complete loss is unrealistic in any situation. You also say, "it's about the RP in the end." What business doesn't care about profits? I would argue with your logic, they are portraying running a business improperly and are deserving of a RP quality report. Any business owner runs a business to make money. That's the entire point. That thought process shouldn't be non-existent just because they get a bonus. There is a reason the GTAW admins made a rule saying you couldn't sell alcohol products for free, because it's completely unrealistic. I would argue in this case, that selling at a complete loss is also unrealistic, by that same logic.

 

Also, why would I be angry about people underselling when the price of the product has no bearing on my profits? You seem to be missing the entire point. I could sell the product for free and still profit from the business bonus. This is the issue.

 

No, I don't own a business in the game, but I own one in real life. I understand that it's a game, but the fact of the matter is that this thought pattern contributes to the reason there isn't anything unique in the game in terms of businesses. It's just an endless amount of bars and nightclubs because it's easy to make money that way. More unique businesses can't survive because people don't want to spend money in the game based on the GTAW economy, they want to RP a real economy and that's not feasible here. How do you not see this as a problem?

Edited March 14, 2020 by Giles

[Raindance]

I 100% agree with what Giles said. Yes it may be a game but this is an issue for people actually trying to invest their time into running a business with appropriate GTA:W pricing for their product

Edited March 14, 2020 by Raindance

[Law]

Could think of the entry fee as a cover charge for free/discounted drink, food and entertainment.