Jail sentences and their given times.

[eTaylor]

Just now, Rey said:

and there is a big shortage of judges, so we must just allow cops to detain and possibly arrest anyone how he sees fit?

 

Bail doesnt go to cops, bail goes to the justice system.

Cops don't just detain and arrest anyone as they see fee, there is an entire justice system backing that up. The system is already set up like that, you're basically just citing the implemented system, vaguely complaining about something without actually pointing out a problem with the system. Cops don't, and never have done bail. In fact, the IG justice system is so efficient it manages to effectively fast-track the arraignment process in favor of the criminal.

[Max3]

1 minute ago, Rey said:

and there is a big shortage of judges, so we must just allow cops to detain and possibly arrest anyone how he sees fit with entire jail sentences as run up to a trial?

 

How convenient....

 

Bail doesnt go to cops, bail goes to the justice system.

Look. Instead of making false claims and fighting over every little thing I'd like you to start posting evidence. @Rey please post a source to verify what you said about being released instantly and all the other, er, claims you've maid.

[Rey]

Just now, eTaylor said:

Cops don't just detain and arrest anyone as they see fee, there is an entire justice system backing that up. The system is already set up like that, you're basically just citing the implemented system, vaguely complaining about something without actually pointing out a problem with the system. Cops don't, and never have done bail. In fact, the IG justice system is so efficient it manages to effectively fast-track the arraignment process in favor of the criminal. 

 

There is no point in discussing this any further because you are obviously perfectly comfortable being able to lock people up for a minimum of 24H before they even get arranged, let alone if they plead guilty or no contest. Then you can just throw the book at them and possibly waste weeks or months of their gametime..

 

 

[eTaylor]

Just now, Rey said:

There is no point in discussing this any further because you are obviously perfectly comfortable being able to lock people up for a minimum of 24H before they even get arranged, let alone if they plead guilty or no contest. Then you can just throw the book at them and possibly waste weeks or months of their gametime..

 

That's a bad faith argument, and you do realize cops can't just arrest or lock up people just because they feel like it right? You get arrested, you fast-track arraignment, you put in your plea, the DA gathers your evidence, and in one go you have your bail hearing, arraignment, discovery, plea and preliminary in one go. The only thing of the entire system takes a few hours, trials can last a day or two. Where are these weeks or months of game time you're talking about? And how is time in county jail wasted? The entire purpose of the facility is to facilitate roleplay, so you're perfectly able to roleplay in jail just as much as you are outside of jail. 

[hipsxn]

Personally I think the jail times are perfect, especially since if you actively RP in prison then your sentence decreases 3x faster. Some charges require work but for the time being it's smooth.

[Brett]

1 hour ago, Rey said:

and there is a big shortage of judges, so we must just allow cops to detain and possibly arrest anyone how he sees fit with entire jail sentences as run up to a trial?

 

How convenient....

 

Bail doesnt go to cops, bail goes to the justice system.

I honestly don't think you understand what you're talking about at all. Have you actually been arrested IG at any point? 

[zaXer.]

I agree it's a bit overkill, the judge system is a bit hard to understand and work with so I'd like to have it implemented in game of a sort and not only exist in the forums. And I agree that PD begins arresting left and right for petty reasons then the charges get contested, which can easily be seen by the courts, but then we don't see anything happening to those officers, and the whole issue keeps going on and on. 

[secretamerican]

1 minute ago, zaXer. said:

I agree it's a bit overkill, the judge system is a bit hard to understand and work with so I'd like to have it implemented in game of a sort and not only exist in the forums. And I agree that PD begins arresting left and right for petty reasons then the charges get contested, which can easily be seen by the courts, but then we don't see anything happening to those officers, and the whole issue keeps going on and on. 

Feel free to point out some specific examples. I would be happy to bring them up to the right people in PD and SD.

[Selena]

1 hour ago, Rey said:

 

There is no point in discussing this any further because you are obviously perfectly comfortable being able to lock people up for a minimum of 24H before they even get arranged, let alone if they plead guilty or no contest. Then you can just throw the book at them and possibly waste weeks or months of their gametime..

 

 

No consent? 
 

If you’re willing to throw “the book” at them and “waste” weeks of our game time it’s exactly what we want you to do, the courts is very much forum based though we’re trying with legal FM to improve on that. If you want to argue on a case and in fact “throw the book at them” we’d all like that, however, it doesn’t require consent whatsoever so I’m not entirely sure where that comes into play. 
 

Correct me if I’m wrong.

[eTaylor]

8 minutes ago, zaXer. said:

I agree it's a bit overkill, the judge system is a bit hard to understand and work with so I'd like to have it implemented in game of a sort and not only exist in the forums. And I agree that PD begins arresting left and right for petty reasons then the charges get contested, which can easily be seen by the courts, but then we don't see anything happening to those officers, and the whole issue keeps going on and on. 

Well the legal system is that, a legal system. In the real world we have a complicated legal system because we live in a complicated society. In-game we have a similar system that merely follows basic principles. It really isn't that hard to understand, and only suggests your own unwillingness to really give it a simple look over. The process is publicly posted, and pretty simple to read through (I'll post it below). While I would love to have courts in-game, it just isn't practical or efficient. There's no way you can build a system around an in-game legal system that encompasses the basic principles of it's real life counterpart. You'd have to twist and reform a system that does no justice to the roleplay, or the purpose of it entirely. 

 

PD however doesn't just arrest people for petty reasons, the requirements for an arrest are pretty clear. And the justice system is there to protect people from arbitrary actions and abuses of law enforcement. If an officer makes a stupid arrest the courts would pick that up pretty quickly, and the legal consequences are self-explanatory. It also isn't the court's job to punish officers internally. Cops can make bad arrests now and then, luckily we have a justice system where the people have a way to hold the law accountable through IC means - the way it should be.

 

Quote

 

The Superior Court of San Andreas shall operate a trial system that combines realistic legal principle and standard, within an appropriate time restraining and simplistic manner in order to ensure speedy trial and standardized conduct for how these trials shall be conducted. The stages of the trial, along with what is to be expected shall be detailed below for the Criminal Trials. 

 

Note: All times presented are merely estimates, and not the actual times of how long these periods will actually last. 

 

Stage I: Pre-Trial

 

During Stage I of the process, referred to as the Pre-Trial Phase. The District Attorney's Office will be notified of the initial plea of a defendant pleading Not Guilty, and the District Attorney's Office uses this time to prepare for the official trial phase. A Petition for Bail may be filed by the District Attorney's Office if the defendant in question is deemed to be low-risk for bail, pending the official filing of the case. An associated Plea Deal may be offered during this stage to the defendant by the District Attorney's Office and may be negotiated at this time with their respective attorneys during this pre-investigatory period. This stage is estimated to last around two days. 

 

Stage II: Discovery & Attendance

 

During Stage II of the process, referred to as the Discovery & Attendance Phase. An official Criminal Arraignment shall be filed, and assigned a magistrate for the duration of the case. And all participants from the prosecution and defense will be counted to be present, before the main trial may be allowed to proceed. After attendance is confirmed by all associated parties, the court shall grant an official court recess to the defense in order for them to properly be given preparation in response to the official filing by the District Attorney's Office. All appropriate evidence from both parties will be submitted during this period into the official court record, If evidence needs to be submitted later in the trial, it must be motioned to the judge to allow it into the court record and will not be automatically accepted. This stage is estimated to last around two days, and ends when both parties are ready to proceed. 

 

Stage III: Opening Trial

 

During Stage III of the process, referred to as the Opening Trial Phase. The prosecution shall begin with their opening statement to the court. In this opening statement the prosecution will restate the facts of the case along with supporting evidence submitted in the arraignment, and justify decisions made by the District Attorney’s Office in determining recommendations for parole/probation and/or time served, etc. After the prosecution lays out their argument, the defense will begin their opening statement with a restatement of facts of the case and their supporting counter-evidence to the prosecutions claims. It is during this time that the defense will also state what exactly is being challenged in regards to the charges, whether they will be contesting all of them, or accepting a few in order to limit arguments later in the trial and present appropriate evidence to assure the court the arguments will not be a waste of time in the end. If the defense fails to pass muster by the presiding magistrate during this stage, a motion for summary judgement may be filed by the prosecution to the court in order to end the proceedings pending approval or denial by the magistrate. This stage is estimated to last around one day, and ends when both parties have been heard from in regards to their opening statement. 

 

Stage IV: Trial

 

During Stage IV of the process, referred to as the Trial Phase. The prosecution shall directly debate the counter arguments presented in opening by the defense, by using all evidence previously submitted and formulating arguments to advance their case and the defense shall do the same towards the prosecution. Written depositions from witnesses if required will be submitted during this stage and are preferable to verbal testimony for the sake of time, and for the entire stage the defense and the prosecution will have the floor. This stage is estimated to last around five days, and ends when both parties have argued sufficiently enough to lay out their arguments to the court, and have rested their case. 

 

Stage V: Magistrate Questions

 

During Stage V of the process, referred to as the Magistrate Questions Phase. The magistrate overseeing the trial may proceed to ask clarifying questions on things that were rather unclear in direct fashion to either the prosecution or the defense in order to fully understand something they may have missed, or didn’t entirely understand the point of. This stage is not to be used to re-argue facts presented, just to clarify arguments to the magistrate for a proper judgement to be rendered. This stage is estimated to last around one day, and ends when the magistrate is satisfied with the answers in order to make a verdict. 

 

Stage VI: Judgement

 

During Stage VI of the process, referred to as the Judgement Phase. The magistrate shall deliver the verdict of the court with the opinion of the court for a restatement of facts of the case, and proceed to lay sentence on the offender or decree that the standard of evidence for the trial was not achieved by the prosecution and thus instate release of the defendant from custody. This stage is estimated to last around one day, and ends when the official verdict is given. Officially ending the trial. 

---

CIVIL DIVISION PROCEEDINGS

 

The Superior Court of San Andreas shall operate a trial system that combines realistic legal principle and standard, within an appropriate time restraining and simplistic manner in order to ensure speedy trial and standardized conduct for how these trials shall be conducted. The stages of the trial, along with what is to be expected shall be detailed below for the Civil Trials. 

 

Note: All times presented are merely estimates, and not the actual times of how long these periods will actually last.

 

Stage I: Discovery & Attendance

 

During Stage I of the process, referred to as the Discovery & Attendance Phase. An official Civil Petition shall be filed, and assigned a magistrate for the duration of the case. And all participants from the plaintiff and defendant will be counted to be present, before the main trial may be allowed to proceed. After attendance is confirmed by all associated parties, the court shall grant an official court recess to the defendant in order for them to properly be given preparation in response to the official filing by the Plaintiff. All appropriate evidence from both parties will be submitted during this period into the official court record, If evidence needs to be submitted later in the trial, it must be motioned to the judge to allow it into the court record and will not be automatically accepted. This stage is estimated to last around two days, and ends when both parties are ready to proceed. 

 

Stage II: Opening Trial

 

During Stage II of the process, referred to as the Opening Trial Phase. The prosecution shall begin with their opening statement to the court. In this opening statement the prosecution will restate the facts of the case along with supporting evidence submitted in the petition, and justify decisions made by the plaintiff in determining recommendations for restitution, and/or other civil punishment. After the plaintiff lays out their argument, the defendant will begin their opening statement with a restatement of facts of the case and their supporting counter-evidence to the claims submitted by the plaintiff. It is during this time that the defendant will also state what exactly is being challenged in regards to the allegations, whether they will be contesting all of them, or accepting a few in order to limit arguments later in the trial and present appropriate evidence to assure the court the arguments will not be a waste of time in the end. If the defendant fails to pass muster by the presiding magistrate during this stage, a motion for summary judgement may be filed by the plaintiff to the court in order to end the proceedings pending approval or denial by the magistrate. This stage is estimated to last around one day, and ends when both parties have been heard from in regards to their opening statement. 

 

Stage III: Trial

 

During Stage III of the process, referred to as the Trial Phase. The plaintiff shall directly debate the counter arguments presented in opening by the defendant, by using all evidence previously submitted and formulating arguments to advance their case and the defendant shall do the same towards the plaintiff. Written depositions from witnesses if required will be submitted during this stage and are preferable to verbal testimony for the sake of time, and for the entire stage the defendant and the plaintiff will have the floor. This stage is estimated to last around five days, and ends when both parties have argued sufficiently enough to lay out their arguments to the court, and have rested their case. 

 

Stage IV: Magistrate Questions

 

During Stage IV of the process, referred to as the Magistrate Questions Phase. The magistrate overseeing the trial may proceed to ask clarifying questions on things that were rather unclear in direct fashion to either the plaintiff or the defendant in order to fully understand something they may have missed, or didn’t entirely understand the point of. This stage is not to be used to re-argue facts presented, just to clarify arguments to the magistrate for a proper judgement to be rendered. This stage is estimated to last around one day, and ends when the magistrate is satisfied with the answers in order to make a verdict. 

 

Stage V: Judgement

 

During Stage V of the process, referred to as the Judgement Phase. The magistrate shall deliver the verdict of the court with the opinion of the court for a restatement of facts of the case, and proceed to lay sentence on the defendant or decree that the standard of evidence for the trial was not achieved by the plaintiff and thus instate release of the defendant from custody. This stage is estimated to last around one day, and ends when the official verdict is given. Officially ending the trial.