Los Santos Sheriff Department & County jail release

[Hugh-Gi-Oh]

If the yard is simply divided by nothing but a fence, then men and women can still talk to each other, but it eliminates the possibility of abuse. Still interaction, just no physical interaction. It's not as divided as prisons are in real life, but I think it's a nice compromise between realism and RP accessibility. 

 

EDIT: and obviously don't put men and women in the same jail cell

Edited January 14, 2020 by Hugh-Gi-Oh

[Triple-J]

Unfortunately my previous post has been deleted, caused by an unnecessary joke about my faction. Apologies for that.

But I still want to get my point across and my question answered, so here it is again:
I feel like this issue can easily be solved by either:

- Having different "yard-time"  hours and at least not locking women up with males in one cell.
- Having a big fence dividing the cellblock instead of having 2 cell blocks for women and men.

Also my question, does this mean we also get a correctional facility/high security prison in time? Props for all the hard work, but I feel people want to develop a long term prison community rather than roleplaying low-lifes serving short term sentences which the police station serves perfectly for.

[Giles]

17 hours ago, jop said:

Approach it under the impression this is how it has always been. Don't role play an awkward dynamic of ''I'm not meant to be here'' or anything weird, because it'll make it even more awkward than it already is. Some scarifices just need to be made for the betterment of the server.

Except in this case, the women are the ones who will be sacrificing, not the men. To my knowledge, I don't think there are any coed prisons in the United States where men and women are housed in the same block. As other people have said, women will be brutalized in a coed prison. This is just going to end up in men trying to /b rape perms or abuse the women and they will most likely log out of their prison sentence regardless. This is completely unrealistic, RP or not. This should not have been one of those times where an exception is made. There is a reason we have men and women separated in our US jails.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Scaramouche

[owen]

1 minute ago, Scaramouche said:

Except in this case, the women are the ones who will be sacrificing, not the men. To my knowledge, I don't think there are any coed prisons in the United States where men and women are housed in the same block. As other people have said, women would be brutalized in a coed prison. This is just going to end up in men trying to /b rape perms or abuse the women and they will most likely log out of their prison sentence regardless. This is completely unrealistic, RP or not. This should not have been one of those times where an exception is made. There is a reason we have men and women separated in our US jails.

If you have ever role played in any prison environment for longer than three months, you will understand the reasons for doing so. It is unrealistic in the terms of real life counter-parts, yes. As I have told others, if we enforced a pod only for females (a very SMALL minority) they will not have a lot of role play and will eventually succumb to just tabbing out and waiting for their time to go down. No one is disputing what you're saying, but doing it is not feasible. 

 

It does not work, it is not enjoyable and people get bored when they have no one to interact with, and this is what would happen if we did so. 

[Bospy]

31 minutes ago, Scaramouche said:

Except in this case, the women are the ones who will be sacrificing, not the men. To my knowledge, I don't think there are any coed prisons in the United States where men and women are housed in the same block. As other people have said, women would be brutalized in a coed prison. This is just going to end up in men trying to /b rape perms or abuse the women and they will most likely log out of their prison sentence regardless. This is completely unrealistic, RP or not. This should not have been one of those times where an exception is made. There is a reason we have men and women separated in our US jails.

 

There are coed jails in the USA. Co-ed prisons do not exist, but co-ed jails do.

 

That said, there isn't any in LA.

 

Our faction is launching into a completely new and unique project. While we definitely could separate females and males into two separate cellblocks right now, it's too much of a risk for us to do right away while lacking a lot of the necessary resources to do it. Separating female characters would be a mutual drain, because females would be restricted in what they could do in the jail system (we'd have to lock them up solely in that cellblock by the nature of the mapping, essentially they'd be entirely isolated), and custody players would need to man a cellblock where only 1-2 players are around at any one time. Nobody is saying this is something we're against doing now or in the future, this is just a minuscule issue for us right now. Separation based on gender would make things needlessly complicated at this early stage where everything hinges on a successful launch. 

 

We are not against doing this in the future, in fact I'd like to do it when the LSSD grows and there's more players, but doing it right now would essentially be an OOC punishment for female roleplayers. There'd be 1-2 female characters in a single block.

 

However, I can guarantee this - if it becomes an issue of immersion, we will correct it right away. But I don't think this will be nearly as much of an issue as many people here believe it will be. The community I came from had coed prison for upwards of 7 years and throughout the entirety of my serious prison roleplay "career" there was really never an issue for gang members in the system, nor were females "brutalized". You can self-police your interactions with female characters on an internal level. You can even ignore them if you want.

 

The people we have in this faction have upwards of 10 years of prison roleplay experience among us. We are telling you this is not going to be an issue. If it becomes one for whatever reason, we will change it as soon as possible.

 

1 hour ago, Triple-J said:

Also my question, does this mean we also get a correctional facility/high security prison in time? Props for all the hard work, but I feel people want to develop a long term prison community rather than roleplaying low-lifes serving short term sentences which the police station serves perfectly for.

Many long-term prisoners transition in and out of the county jail system in LA due to a court-ordered reorganization scheme after the federal government ruled against the CDCR in a lawsuit. A prison is not in the cards for right now, but a long-term prison-gang community is equally likely to form inside of the county jail on the basis of realism - LA county jail is filled to the brim with high-up gang-members who abuse the courts.

 

In fact, one could argue the LA county jail system is worse in some respects than CDCR prisons. I recommend players read up on some of the ACLU lawsuits.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Bospy

[realHoffman]

21 hours ago, Dumplings said:

seriously dont get why a sheriff department is taking on the role of department of corrections, it should be two separate factions - nonetheless it's nice to have a PRISON in the server finally..

... because that's what they do IRL

[pateuvasiliu]

9 hours ago, DanneBRE said:

Shouldn't lower our standards imo.

And if GTAW's criminal pop was half female you'd have a point but if you segregate by gender female prison will just become Dead City AFKville.

[Caracosa]

3 hours ago, Bospy said:

However, I can guarantee this - if it becomes an issue of immersion, we will correct it right away. But I don't think this will be nearly as much of an issue as many people here believe it will be.

IMO there are already immersion/realism concerns, even for characters outside of jail.

There is a deep and cyclical relationship between the street life and incarcerated life. My understanding is that the culture and politics of Los Angeles Hispanic street gangs is influenced by boys/men entering the jail/prison system, where they are exposed to Sureno culture and the political heart of the Mexican Mafia. They bring all this back with them to the streets upon release. (Similar to non-gang members from Fresno turning into Bulldogs on the inside.) But Latinas are never exposed to that. This is one of many factors explaining why women can't climb the hierarchy in the same way: women are physically cut off from the prison gangs.

If we are to RP like co-ed county jail was always a thing, it retcons a lot of history and character development, and should probably shake up the sex/gender situation for many illegal factions. We no longer have real life sources to draw upon for inspiration/guidance.

For example, what about Hispanic female gang members/associates who have been in and out of the system ICly and RPed jail/prison sentences? What was their experience like? How does that change the culture and politics? How does that change the available roles, expectations, etc, etc?

And certainly my last year of RP would be different if my character was raised knowing she could be incarcerated with her brothers, homeboys, boyfriends, etc. It certainly retcons many conversations and scenes I've RPed.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Caracosa

[Max3]

13 minutes ago, Caracosa said:

MO there are already immersion/realism concerns, even for characters outside of jail.

There is a deep and cyclical relationship between the street life and incarcerated life. My understanding is that the culture and politics of Los Angeles Hispanic street gangs is influenced by boys/men entering the jail/prison system, where they are exposed to Sureno culture and the political heart of the Mexican Mafia. They bring all this back with them to the streets upon release. (Similar to non-gang members from Fresno turning into Bulldogs on the inside.) But Latinas are never exposed to that. This is one of many factors explaining why women can't climb the hierarchy in the same way: women are physically cut off from the prison gangs.

If we are to RP like co-ed county jail was always a thing, it retcons a lot of history and character development, and should probably shake up the sex/gender situation for many illegal factions. We no longer have real life sources to draw upon for inspiration/guidance.

For example, what about Hispanic female gang members/associates who have been in and out of the system ICly and RPed jail/prison sentences? What was their experience like? How does that change the culture and politics? How does that change the available roles, expectations, etc, etc?

And certainly my last year of RP would be different if my character was raised knowing she could be incarcerated with her brothers, homeboys, boyfriends, etc. It certainly retcons many conversations and scenes I've RPed.

Bruh this is a faction thread not a general discussion. If you're so upset take it to general discussions.  Let the man Bopsy make his faction the way he wants.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Max3

[Caracosa]

Just now, Max3 said:

Bruh this is a faction thread not a general discussion. If you're so upset take it to general discussions. 

We're in an announcement thread and lots of people are discussing things. I apologize to Nervous and the County Sheriff's Department faction if I've stepped out of line.

But this is their faction thread: