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Redefine PK's and CK's Officially


Brett

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6 minutes ago, MikeTheMike said:

 

I'd say a good 90% of 'finishers' in the BW mode that I've done, or have seen others do ends in a headshot. These players are definitely not just shooting and running, they aim to kill, I, personally dump more than what the script needs as realistically, if I'm already committing to murder someone - there's no chance I can allow them to survive the encounter. and this is something that happens very often - it's not a one-off scenario. Go watch more videos and you'll see.

 

If this was implemented, you bet your ass everyone would dump clips into people.

 

If you're only worried about gang shootouts in broad daylight, there are many other ways to prevent this from happening. Faction Management is already more than happy to listen in on any quality complaints and direct it to their faction if it holds merit - the faction can then either change, or be shut down.

 

Watch this as an example, this player put a person into BW, kept shooting even before the bullets would register it as a death - and even after he had truly died by the script. This is what I do in 90% of situations, and what I also see others do in personal experience.

 

The first video in the last reply was simply an example of a situation the suggestion couldn't hold up.

 

I'm not denying that it happens, I'm just saying, magdumping into people who are clearly dead is a shoot em' up mentality and poor roleplay.

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Just now, Midwest said:

I'm not denying that it happens, I'm just saying, magdumping into people who are clearly dead is a shoot em' up mentality and poor roleplay.

I mean...he did link you a video self-identified as "Deathmatching." Did you expect quality roleplay lol? 

 

 

This isn't meant to be offensive, just jokes. 

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On 11/15/2019 at 5:41 AM, Henning said:

Definitely needs to be addressed. I've PKed players before and had them show up later and in my RP and it leads to an awkward situation for all parties.

 

Lets look at the character Cam Vance (I don't know your forum name, apologies). Cam and Aaron got in an argument, Cam hit Aaron with his car, Aaron tracked him down and PKed him. Neither of us exist in each others worlds, but here's where the problem starts. Now Cam Vance is closely associated to a character I frequently do business with, OOCly I know whats going on and although I would never do business with Cam for IC reason's, I also can't address this conflict with the third party because Cam is dead in my world.

 

My suggestion?

 

PK = Spur of the moment attacks or attacks where you can not confirm the death of the victim.

CK = Attacks that have been planned out and carried out properly where the death of the victim can be confirmed. Or killings that are approved by staff using the normal CK application.

 

Here's some example:

 

PK: Rolling 60's insulted JTM, JTM decides to execute a drive by on Chamberlain hills, Although they kill multiple characters, They can't confirm that they are dead.

 

CK: The Conti Crew discovers one of their associates are going to flip. They find the associate and kidnap him, Executing him and disposing of the body and evidence properly. Confirming that he is dead.

 

Not the perfect rules but I think it leaves room for people to figure a bit of it out themselves. 

A good example, something illegal factions should take in, and use it.

In my opinion, gangs and hood-type communities should understand that, there's no actual walking humans with 40-50 bodies on their record(bodies = confirmed kills in the streets), so to purify this, don't treat what would be a PK as actual kills, but as treat it as either /warnings/ or /severely injuring the opposition/ them to the point of going to the hospital. But obviously, don't break the rules, if you get pked you still forget everything that happened, don't go back and Revenge Kill cuz you rped coming out of the hospital, we don't like rulebreakers right? CK's are the ones to be treated as actual /bodies/, and I fully agree with that.

 

OT: hopefully you make that pk - attempted murder and ck =actual murder shit happen, cuz that's what we need.

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24 minutes ago, 23VILLAIN said:

A good example, something illegal factions should take in, and use it.

In my opinion, gangs and hood-type communities should understand that, there's no actual walking humans with 40-50 bodies on their record(bodies = confirmed kills in the streets), so to purify this, don't treat what would be a PK as actual kills, but as treat it as either /warnings/ or /severely injuring the opposition/ them to the point of going to the hospital. But obviously, don't break the rules, if you get pked you still forget everything that happened, don't go back and Revenge Kill cuz you rped coming out of the hospital, we don't like rulebreakers right? CK's are the ones to be treated as actual /bodies/, and I fully agree with that.

 

OT: hopefully you make that pk - attempted murder and ck =actual murder shit happen, cuz that's what we need.

Thank you for the support in this. 

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Since this is going a bit back and forth on the same arguments, i'll give you some materials:

-We do not intend in making PK a "near death experience" : it'll remain what it is today and a death.

-I believe that character kills are slowly but surely making progress, we have daily character kills applications instead of one per month and with our recent changes in the rules to include stupid deaths (lack of fear, suicide) we also keep seeing more an more CKs.

PKs are not perfect but we will never have a server where each deaths are a CK that's for sure.

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13 hours ago, MikeTheMike said:

 

I'd say a good 90% of 'finishers' in the BW mode that I've done, or have seen others do ends in a headshot. These players are definitely not just shooting and running, they aim to kill, I, personally dump more than what the script needs as realistically, if I'm already committing to murder someone - there's no chance I can allow them to survive the encounter. and this is something that happens very often - it's not a one-off scenario. Go watch more videos and you'll see.

 

If this was implemented, you bet your ass everyone would dump clips into people.

 

If you're only worried about gang shootouts in broad daylight, there are many other ways to prevent this from happening. Faction Management is already more than happy to listen in on any quality complaints and direct it to their faction if it holds merit - the faction can then either change, or be shut down.

 

Watch this as an example, this player put a person into BW, kept shooting even before the bullets would register it as a death - and even after he had truly died by the script. This is what I do in 90% of situations, and what I also see others do in personal experience.

 

The first video in the last reply was simply an example of a situation the suggestion couldn't hold up.

 

thats why he got banned

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13 hours ago, Midwest said:

If script limitations cause the need for walking up to ensure the death, that's not something to fault GTA:W for. 

 

The first one was absolutely horrible, the people easily sent 100+ shots with automatic firearms, then proceeded to spend a extra minute on scene magdumping into the bodies over and over despite them 100% being dead multiple times over. 

 

The second was alright, what I see is mostly him shooting people multiple times and going up because of the script, nothing wrong with that. But in a few occasions, such as on a gang shootout in broad daylight, especially in a very public place, it's very stupid both in game and in reality to go up to people to ensure they're all dead and waste time dumping rounds into them, that's far from frequent. 

completely agree with the magdumping thing, if people do it in a shootout they should get punished.

even though i've done it in the past and so have many of my members...

but now i'm trying to enforce a wounded rule which basically means you shouldn't magdump or go for an actual kill unless you're CKing someone as most of the time in gang shootings nobody gets killed and they just get injured.

 

so like, when you get in a shootout, just shoot back and try to get out of there instead of magdumping after you wound them, it would never happen irl.

 

but the whole "shooting in daytime" thing is wack, if people hate it that much then they should maybe suggest making the day/night cycle every few hours instead of 1:1 scale with IRL, so what if its daytime? does someone have to wait hours and hours till its like 3am their time just for it to be night time?

 

just ops

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I pose the following question that requires clarification. Hypothetically, what were to exist if a person were to post statements on Facebrowser that lead to their death? I.E. A insults B. B executes A. A is PKd. A examines their own Facebrowser account. A examines that they've threatened B.

What would happen in that situation? What if subject "C" begins to post on subject "A"'s wall about the incident AFTER the PK? Is it simply a "I don't know what you're talking about?". Or, is it "I don't remember writing that?". 

Edited by DLimit
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12 hours ago, DLimit said:

I pose the following question that requires clarification. Hypothetically, what were to exist if a person were to post statements on Facebrowser that lead to their death? I.E. A insults B. B executes A. A is PKd. A examines their own Facebrowser account. A examines that they've threatened B.

What would happen in that situation? What if subject "C" begins to post on subject "A"'s wall about the incident AFTER the PK? Is it simply a "I don't know what you're talking about?". Or, is it "I don't remember writing that?". 

These aren't real people, they aren't AIs, you'd just simply ignore it. 

 

Edit: yeah that's really messed up, and you could say you don't know what they're talking about etc, or you could ignore it. 

 

I think if someone wants to kill someone because they spoke poorly about them they should have to apply for a CK

Edited by Duke
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  • 6 months later...
On 11/14/2019 at 9:52 PM, nwah_ said:

It is a messy area, really. When I first joined PKs seemed so bizarre to me and they still do to an extent, although I understand the reason for them. So people don't have to lose all their character progress over a simple robbery gone wrong, whatever.

 

Though I do think PKs in general do hamper roleplay, there is no continuation, revenge, et cetera. Of course if you get PKed, and your friends witness it, they can obviously get revenge for the act that their (undisclosed random friend) died. But I think it's pretty bullshit that a lot of criminals committing petty crimes like mugging someone resort to PK's just as a way to stop that person from retaliating. Do people kill others over petty shit in the real world? Sure they do, but it's something that shouldn't be so common. Just as the person being robbed/whatever roleplays fear, so too should the person committing the crime, why would they want a simple robbery jumped up to a murder charge? Because they know they can get away with it for the most part.

 

Alternatively CKs can be way more common, at least if you're partaking in violence. Perhaps that would make people more cautious about getting into altercations because no one would just put their life on the line over simple beefs. Perhaps get rid of PKs altogether, and a kill is a kill. A little harsh, but it shouldn't be something done over a petty altercation, unless tensions arose and things got heated. Just my two cents.

Reviving my homie's old ass post because I agree with it and I still think it needs to be said. The main risk that I do agree with is the risk of losing an entire character's progression over simple robberies is completely fair and valid, and people who partake in armed robberies should be extremely careful and unwilling to commit any act of violence beyond a simple beatdown for resisting. At the same time, though, there seems to be a consistent problem that I keep hearing about from other players that there is an inordinate amount of people who will actively attempt to fight their robbers with CCW or even illegally procured firearms, thus making the crime of a simple robbery go from a risky business to a unreasonably and unprofitably risky business. The looming threat of PK will make some people shy away merely from the self-inflicted embarassment of being shot down, but there's no actual sense of risk in any of these actions.

When someone points a gun at your head and tells you to give them your wallet, you should be fearing for your life. No ifs, ands or buts. Your life is in danger and you are at the risk of death. No one is afraid. Everything is regarded as merely another step on the daily schedule and being accosted, robbed and threatened with a firearm is treated as a simple happening in your daily life. Well adjusted human beings are afraid of firearms and people who haven't lived in areas of their country or city where gun violence is a constant risk would find an armed mugging or robbery to be a deeply traumatizing experience. PKs do nothing but water down what should be experiences that invoke legitimate fear. When your character is staring down the barrel of a gun, death should be a risk. Not another wasted life in what may as well be a glorified roleplay TDM match, but a legitimate fear of death. A legitimate fear of active CK.

 

Obviously you would need rules to keep that in check, though. Someone shouldn't just be able to kill another person just because you shot them with a gun.

...That line doesn't quite sound right, in the context of realism, but still. This is a game. People need to remember that. You're all playing a video game, and what games with PvP need most is balancing. Some ganger with a 9mm shouldn't be able to just ice whoever and whatever the fuck they come across just for looking at them the wrong way, because that's madness. Sure, you could enforce that they're just a murderer and easily able to be caught and jailed, but that's not fair to people playing characters that get iced, of course. CKs should be situational, at admin discretion, but people should be more willing to accept character death on their own terms. After playing on Conan Exiles I experience something I had never even imagined to be possible before. Players working in unison. If someone didn't want to die, that person could send a message to their would-be CKer saying "Hey, I'd really like to not die. How can we make that a reality while still maintaining the combat result that just occured?" and then a mutual agreement could be found. Perhaps that's too idealistic for something like GTA, but it's undoubtedly better than PKs, especially in the avenue of fairness.

 

Basically, people should be easier to kill, but players should also just be kinder to each other. Try and work together, not against each other. Healthy competitiveness is excellent for a player, especially within a faction, but hating your fellow player for roleplaying as your character or faction's antagonist is not conducive to quality roleplay. In the great words of Ilya Bryzagalov, goaltender for the Anaheim Ducks:

 

 

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