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Law & Order - GTA World Edition (Judiciary Faction Q&A Stuff)


Brett

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On 11/12/2019 at 9:40 AM, Fareena Mohamadi said:

Crocker, 

 

The 5th amendment has nothing to do with stand your ground laws.  5th amendment is the right to not bear witness against oneself in court.

 

Stand your ground laws have to do with someone protecting themselves in the streets or out in the open.  If I was just walking and you started intimidating me badly, by law I have the right to defend myself.  These laws vary by state and California, which is most represented by San Andreas, is not a stand your ground state.  They have a castle doctrine in place, so if someone breaks into my home and I feel in danger, I can use deadly force.

 

Let's get real though, that golf course is basically unused and suing over a picture then saying Sten had poor rp?  It's amazing to see all the ways people justify theft.


Nicely put reply. What happened to Sten de Visser was unfortunate and is, without question, deserving of reproach. But I wouldn’t, from what I’ve gathered, go as far as to call it theft because the club may have incurred an actionable loss. I say “may” intentionally: it’s difficult to assess at this point because the club didn’t sufficiently lay it out in their complaint and relied on parts of tort law with limited application. For the parts of tort that were applicable, the pleading and exhibits were insufficient to meet the typical criteria to recover under those parts.
 

I would encourage the use of lawyers / bar members to consult about the possibility to appeal and their willingness to take on an appeal, instead of CKing characters  (though, I understand that some character dispositions may predispose one’s character to poor conflict resolution and outcomes, i.e. if one has been portraying a character who is unstable, a poor problem-solver and typically irrational, it may make more sense, in keeping with realistic character portrayal, to CK the character rather than to take the level-headed approach towards an appeal; an unstable and insensible person isn’t going to suddenly become a methodical planner after landing in court).  In any event, a court is presided over by a human and, as always, humans are fallible. They will make mistakes.

 

 

Edited by Midsummer Night's Dream
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I was wondering, how the courts here processes cases with players, who play minors? 

Because int he past i know alot of the police force had a hard time dealing with people rp'ing kids. They ended up treating them as adults, which sucked for the RP. Is it the same for the courts? 

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1 hour ago, Netsrac said:

I was wondering, how the courts here processes cases with players, who play minors? 

Because int he past i know alot of the police force had a hard time dealing with people rp'ing kids. They ended up treating them as adults, which sucked for the RP. Is it the same for the courts? 

Yes. Unless some new rules, systems, etc are made on an OOC level in order to better accommodate such childlike characters. all will be tried as adults and dealt with as such. 

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  • 2 months later...

With respect to this new 'points-based system', I've spoken casually with people on both sides (both LEO & illegal RPers). Based on those discussions, those I spoke with that fall under the latter aren't overly pleased with this new system. Some on the LEO side aren't happy either, with the already-strained court system and having to push, potentially a higher volume of work through. I do agree that consequences for some IC criminal behavior were simply lacklustre, particularly when it came to narcotics offenses, and that a change does need to be made.

 

With that context in mind, I began wondering, was an alternative option considered before this points system to achieve the same desired result? Presumably, that result would be more caution used by criminals ICly, less brazen violent crime, etc.


One such option I, personally, believe would be worthwhile considering or discussing is changing the penal code itself to make a few improvements on consequences. For instance, creating a felony charge for the unlawful sale of a controlled substance. As per the old/current penal code, the act of selling cocaine to an undercover police officer is a misdemeanor. This seems grossly inadequate in my opinion.
Additionally, the highest narcotics charge currently in the penal code, '509. Drug Trafficking', is for possession of 75 grams or more. The volumes of narcotics that have been seized recently are immensely greater than 75 grams. It doesn't seem right that somebody who is in possession of 100 grams of, let's say cocaine, will receive exactly the same treatment as somebody who is caught in possession of 1,000 grams (1 kilogram) or 10 kilograms.

 

Anyhow, my question is, was something like the above considered as an alternative or discussed at any point? If it was and there are reasons it wasn't implemented, I'm happy to listen and more than willing to change my mind.

 

Thanks

 

 

Obligatory 'the above is purely anecdotal and my opinion'.

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9 minutes ago, Yass said:

With respect to this new 'points-based system', I've spoken casually with people on both sides (both LEO & illegal RPers). Based on those discussions, those I spoke with that fall under the latter aren't overly pleased with this new system. Some on the LEO side aren't happy either, with the already-strained court system and having to push, potentially a higher volume of work through. I do agree that consequences for some IC criminal behavior were simply lacklustre, particularly when it came to narcotics offenses, and that a change does need to be made.

 

With that context in mind, I began wondering, was an alternative option considered before this points system to achieve the same desired result? Presumably, that result would be more caution used by criminals ICly, less brazen violent crime, etc.


One such option I, personally, believe would be worthwhile considering or discussing is changing the penal code itself to make a few improvements on consequences. For instance, creating a felony charge for the unlawful sale of a controlled substance. As per the old/current penal code, the act of selling cocaine to an undercover police officer is a misdemeanor. This seems grossly inadequate in my opinion.
Additionally, the highest narcotics charge currently in the penal code, '509. Drug Trafficking', is for possession of 75 grams or more. The volumes of narcotics that have been seized recently are immensely greater than 75 grams. It doesn't seem right that somebody who is in possession of 100 grams of, let's say cocaine, will receive exactly the same treatment as somebody who is caught in possession of 1,000 grams (1 kilogram) or 10 kilograms.

 

Anyhow, my question is, was something like the above considered as an alternative or discussed at any point? If it was and there are reasons it wasn't implemented, I'm happy to listen and more than willing to change my mind.

 

Thanks

 

 

Obligatory 'the above is purely anecdotal and my opinion'.

I wouldn't say the courts are strained, as it's actually been in quite a booming period with new members coming in and cases being handled swiftly so if someone has informed you this is not the case and that it's struggling atm, then that would be incorrect. All the alternative options to this problem were solutions implemented in the current Penal Code and server. Everything from the Jail with increased OOC sentences, to larger fines, to mandatory court trials for certain major felonies, etc and it hasn't all achieved the desired result to the extent that we need it to. And thus, this is the new step. On the drug charges, those eventually will be looked at, but it is not the current priority at the moment. I will however say though, that the drugs aside there are a lot of other charges completely separate from that which do have provisions in regards to officers and that still hasn't really done the trick. The whole point now is a trial period, and to see what the effects are. And the only thing that will give everyone concrete results, are to see the results when they come in as a lot of dislike/fear at this time is based on perceptions of what will happen usually based on outdated views from years ago on a previous server. At the end of the day, this is going to either work, or not. And if it doesn't work, it can be removed. That's really as simple as we can get. 

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Like Yass above me, I'm also not very content with this new system. From an OOC point of view, it makes sense to have a system that gives people more fear of law enforcement. Whereas right now it's more just a nuisance to get caught (spend a couple hours logged off in a cell and then log back in again when you're done, and just keep doing the same stuff again) a system like this one would certainly help make people RP the fear of law enforcement properly. 

 

But, from an IC perspective, this doesn't make much sense. Points don't seem like a good judicial system. I can't really imagine a real courts system depending on points like this, which brings apart the immersion a little.

 

I can live with that, but in my opinion, a more immersive system could be much simpler. Increase jail time for repeat offenders by a lot. First felony offense, keep it as it is. Second? Increase it to a few days, right away. Third, a few weeks. Fourth, a month. Increasing the jailtime by a lot right away will make people very scared about commiting crimes when they already have one, while not resorting to CKs right away. Maybe I'm being too harsh with going to a month at the fourth offense, but that'll be up to the administration to decide; my point is more that second offenses should just be punished a lot more harshly from the beginning, at least by going to a few days of jail time. 

 

Of course, I appreciate this trial period, it'll be very interesting to see how this goes, and I'm not at all saying scrap it. I'm just putting in my point of view.

 

Edit: Taking this to this thread instead, better place to post it. My bad. 

 

Edited by Hugh-Gi-Oh
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14 minutes ago, Hugh-Gi-Oh said:

Like Yass above me, I'm also not very content with this new system. From an OOC point of view, it makes sense to have a system that gives people more fear of law enforcement. Whereas right now it's more just a nuisance to get caught (spend a couple hours logged off in a cell and then log back in again when you're done, and just keep doing the same stuff again) a system like this one would certainly help make people RP the fear of law enforcement properly. 

 

But, from an IC perspective, this doesn't make much sense. Points don't seem like a good judicial system. I can't really imagine a real courts system depending on points like this, which brings apart the immersion a little.

 

I can live with that, but in my opinion, a more immersive system could be much simpler. Increase jail time for repeat offenders by a lot. First felony offense, keep it as it is. Second? Increase it to a few days, right away. Third, a few weeks. Fourth, a month. Increasing the jailtime by a lot right away will make people very scared about commiting crimes when they already have one, while not resorting to CKs right away. Maybe I'm being too harsh with going to a month at the fourth offense, but that'll be up to the administration to decide; my point is more that second offenses should just be punished a lot more harshly from the beginning, at least by going to a few days of jail time. 

 

Of course, I appreciate this trial period, it'll be very interesting to see how this goes, and I'm not at all saying scrap it. I'm just putting in my point of view.

 

Edit: Taking this to this thread instead, better place to post it. My bad. 

 

The points are our worlds reflection of the three-strike system. Which is a real life thing. We wanted to give people more lee-way in their crimes, as implementing a straight three-strike system would throw most of the server in jail for life and it wouldn't be at all fair. 

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36 minutes ago, Brett said:

On the drug charges, those eventually will be looked at, but it is not the current priority at the moment. I will however say though, that the drugs aside there are a lot of other charges completely separate from that which do have provisions in regards to officers and that still hasn't really done the trick.

It should be considering the number of big drug cases that the PD has hit on over the past month, only to have them basically cut down by the current system, which is laughable. You take away the ability to actually cripple organizations by levying hefty fines against them for their crimes.

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you'd think that we're actually trying to rid the city of criminals from an OOC standpoint, judging by some of the responses in this thread. i mean, the dedication to cutting down crime is laudable and all, but let's not forget that players committing their characters to the criminal lifestyle is a big part of what keeps the server going.

 

with that said, i'd rather have to roleplay with characters that have arguably exaggerated criminal backgrounds, than being too efficient with policing the server, and thus having no one to roleplay with at all. 

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