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Brett

Law & Order - GTA World Edition (Court/Doj Faction Q&A Stuff)

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Kestalas    47
4 hours ago, Brett said:

law-order-title-card-in-powerpoint-and-w


Hello everyone, 

 

I am Brett, you can read a little about me here. I am the leader of the courts/doj faction and I am making this thread to sorta make a lot more public plans in the background of law for the entire server, that I've talked about in various discords, forum pms, or individual factions that not everyone gets to immediately hear about or really know until it's done and I wish to open up that dialogue a bit more. If you can take a look here, I'm the one responsible for about 90% of the stuff here and am the main writer for the State Laws on the server. Of course I also run the courts which is expanding to include three tiers (Superior, Appellate, and Supreme), and regularly liaison with various players/factions on various legal affairs in relation to jailing or general legal stuff that may not be properly understood to lay the foundations of how things will be done in that sector of the server. Simply put, I'm basically the one you talk to if you want to know anything law related about the server, period. 

 

All that to say, I'm really here to just open up a lot of discussion in regards to laws present and future on the server, any plans regarding the justice/judicial system which will also include a lot of information going into the Los Santos Sheriff's Department in relation to Parole, Probation, that kinda thing. Stuff relating to the District Attorney System which I'm sure a lot of illegal roleplayers have been getting familiar with, and just general comments in relation to all that's been happening in this sector. So ask away, or just leave a thank you for all the work done so far. I'm here to answer any questions and/or concerns, take suggestions, the works. All I ask is for respectful attitudes, and healthy discussion. Thank you, and I await the responses.  

If I could give you a thumbs up on here, I would. Alas, I have run out of thumbs up for the day 🤣 so here 👍👍👍👍

 

I'm glad that you have opened the floor for this area, as it's something that is of interest to me. As of now, I concur with a question posed by others already. I would love to know if there will be more clarification for the field of general medical & mental health, i.e. people wanting to RP doctors, psychologists and even psychiatrists. Someone who wants to play a doctor or psychiatrist could obviously give out medicine prescriptions and such, opening up more avenues for people to RP getting treated, even abusing the medicine, etc. Psychologists can obviously provide mental health counseling/therapy and even coordinate with available psychiatrists and doctors for further treatment. There is a whole world of possibilities out there. There hasn't been really anything "official" for this field from the state/government level.

 

There just doesn't seem to be much legislation/clarification on how one can go about operating within the legal bounds of San Andreas. I feel there should be more IC steps to take a route (state licensing requirements, exams, medical boards etc.) and become officially recognized by the state/city. Obviously I feel it has to start at the state level to lay out laws/rules for people to pursue these professions. Any plans to explore this area further from a legal standpoint to bring this avenue of RP to GTAW?

Edited by Kestalas
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Jaynex    36
2 hours ago, Keane said:


For the topic at hand, my thoughts are similar to Westen. There's been an increase in the interest in roleplay around mental health. This is both from players roleplaying mental health issues and from players roleplaying as psychologists and psychiatrists. It would benefit anyone involved with that kind of roleplay if there was clearer laws brought in so first responders, doctors and anyone rolepalying mental health issues.

 

Hi, I was directed here because of my recent creation of a character wanting to do exactly this.

I have put many hours of OOC work in developing this character and her resources that she would use to be a psychiatrist on server. I have shared this with the members of FM that I know about in addition to Nervous himself as I would like the ability to be able to come to an in character diagnosis of people with mental health issues and be able to prescribe them medication that could help them in character. I wont fill this post up with my reasoning, and if it is something that people want I would be willing to share what I have done in forum PMs. But I know I would love to have some kind of law, or guidelines that I could follow to make this a real option for the character.

 

Currently the character is about a week old and already has done close to 10 therapy sessions with people. Clearly there is an interest in the players on the server for this kind of mental health RP, and I would love to be able to be a part of it, just need a definition of what can be done and what can't.

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Brett    64
4 hours ago, Mitch said:

Overall, what was the hardest thing to implement into GTAW, in terms of Laws / Acts? And what are you most excited for, upcoming laws / features wise? 

SHAFT Act. Coordinating multiple schedules with the authors, and working with FM at the time took months. Long story...

 

3 hours ago, ashlyii said:

Can you tell us more about the process that happens if a person cannot afford to pay a court ruled fine? As we've seen with the recent Sten De Visser case, it resulted in him CKing his character. I'm unsure if this was due to being unable to afford the fine and finding no other option. That's just my guess!  But is there a process in place should someone be fined an amount they simply cannot pay? Whether that's through smaller payments over time etc.?

 

It would be a shame for players to feel the only option is to CK their character for admittedly stupid minor things. Like in the Stan De Visser case, I to would have gone on that golf course and not known it was owned as I've not seen a single advertisement or roleplay event hosted there whilst online. And I do not have a 90k bank account to pay either if I was in his shoes. 

 

Can you just clarify the process after a ruling has been made?

 

The court cases have been very entertaining, a really impressive amount of work has clearly gone into it! (Rascals verdict was a joke tho lol)

That case was a Civil Case, and thus the only thing we have done from our end is handle the financial restitution. Everything associated with a CK was fully on the player, with no connection to the courts. But to answer your question about the court fine, it would just result in the player having to pay as much as they can and then even if that leaves them with $0 if they cannot pay the full fee, and that's all. We've had to do that at times, as we're not going to place people in jail for being too poor to pay fines ordered by the court if we cleaned them out. 

 

3 hours ago, Westen said:

I don't suppose there's a future for anything mental health related law-wise is there? I've been lucky that as a crisis negotiator in PD, one of three things has happened:

  • The person has killed themselves (not the most ideal outcome)
  • The person is talked down and voluntarily goes to hospital (the most ideal outcome)
  • The person committed a crime so we could arrest them (or they end up getting gunned down; the worst outcome).

I have not yet had someone who is talked down, but then refuses to engage after the fact. And I'm guessing it's only a matter of time until that happens.

Is there anything in the works affording peace officers, or even FD, to detain people for their own safety?

 

I've been asked about Mental Health laws a bit, and I'll say this. As far as anything in regards to this area, the only thing about Mental Health we have is in relation to the SHAFT Act with gun laws which allows for confiscation and revocation of firearms and licenses in necessary circumstances. The general procedure for Mental Health is as it stands, is to just transfer people to the FD who attempt to commit suicide for a possible commit to a suicide watch by the hospital (Which would be NPC'd by the player.) However, in the future I do plan on attempting some more stuff with Mental Health and Hospital stuff in general so there may be a more official stance on this in the future, although right now I can't really commit on what that was.

 

2 hours ago, Kestalas said:

If I could give you a thumbs up on here, I would. Alas, I have run out of thumbs up for the day 🤣 so here 👍👍👍👍

 

I'm glad that you have opened the floor for this area, as it's something that is of interest to me. As of now, I concur with a question posed by others already. I would love to know if there will be more clarification for the field of general medical & mental health, i.e. people wanting to RP doctors, psychologists and even psychiatrists. Someone who wants to play a doctor or psychiatrist could obviously give out medicine prescriptions and such, opening up more avenues for people to RP getting treated, even abusing the medicine, etc. Psychologists can obviously provide mental health counseling/therapy and even coordinate with available psychiatrists and doctors for further treatment. There is a whole world of possibilities out there. There hasn't been really anything "official" for this field from the state/government level.

 

There just doesn't seem to be much legislation/clarification on how one can go about operating within the legal bounds of San Andreas. I feel there should be more IC steps to take a route (state licensing requirements, exams, medical boards etc.) and become officially recognized by the state/city. Obviously I feel it has to start at the state level to lay out laws/rules for people to pursue these professions. Any plans to explore this area further from a legal standpoint to bring this avenue of RP to GTAW?

Just to smash this one. I appreciate your comment, and I will simply say that it's possible more IC laws and such will expand on this area  in due time. However I cannot guarantee when this will happen. 

 

 

 

 

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Hollywood    22

 

3 hours ago, Keane said:

It would benefit anyone involved with that kind of roleplay if there was clearer laws brought in for first responders, doctors and anyone rolepalying mental health issues.

 

'Mental health' RP is a slippery slope. There is a massive amount of grey area as far as server/San Andreas law goes on sentencing regarding 'unfit to stand trial by way of mental defect' arguments. In my opinion it is far too easy to start the argument 'oh my client is simply insane' etc. etc. and have sentences for mental institutions without any real RP.

 

In short, the 'mental health' angle is just an OOC gas right now. Without an established DOC there's no reason for this sort of RP on the criminal defense side of things. 

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ashlyii    59

Thanks for the response! That's reassuring to know as someone that tries to play a character living in the breadline. I'm sure there's a lot more like me that feel better with clarification. 

 

You guys have put the effort in and it shows, kudos to your efforts, it's entertaining and brings a super fun aspect to the community for sure!

Edited by ashlyii
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Mitch    151

So you do get a lot of media attention lately, but what do you want to see more of from the media? 

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Brett    64
2 hours ago, Mitch said:

So you do get a lot of media attention lately, but what do you want to see more of from the media? 

Honestly? I'm pretty happy with how the media is covering things, and want that to continue. I do believe however in the future interviews could be given by the Public Defender & District Attorney Offices, etc in order to provide that IC tension for high-profile cases and all. Other then that, I think it's pretty good. 

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Crocker    169
18 hours ago, ashlyii said:

Can you tell us more about the process that happens if a person cannot afford to pay a court ruled fine? As we've seen with the recent Sten De Visser case, it resulted in him CKing his character. I'm unsure if this was due to being unable to afford the fine and finding no other option. That's just my guess!  But is there a process in place should someone be fined an amount they simply cannot pay? Whether that's through smaller payments over time etc.?

As Keane has already mentioned, Sten could afford the fine. He just didn't want to. To answer your question, if someone cannot afford to pay the fine, there is a debt system in place, which you can see either in /stats or on your hourly paychecks, however it seems management is afraid of using it for it's given purpose. image.png.10573c37110dbe34bc28124967dd0f1d.png Assets can always be sold off to pay for fines and this shouldn't not be a thing because someone doesn't like it. At the end of the day, this is a roleplay server and not Second Life. 

 

17 hours ago, ashlyii said:

As I stated, yes, it happens in real-life but in real-life there's more than 200 active people occupying a city. There would be security guards at a golf-club of that size and stature - there would be some advertisement.

There would be, however I'm not going to force someone to stay at a golf club and ensure no trespassers get in at any given time. There's limitations to what we can and cannot do, expecting someone to do as such would just be ludicrous. Whilst there is advertisement in place, there's not any in-game advertisement as the club is designed for a specific class of people.

 

17 hours ago, ashlyii said:

I would have ignored any message to. Plus, I've never known PM to give out a property of that size - so OOCly, especially with that place.. just existing I guess.. I would have assumed I could go there and post a nice picture playing golf.

This argument holds the same weight of players using the yacht. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

 

To the topic on hand, given my shift in what I've been roleplaying, this whole system is great for legal roleplayers who take it seriously. It allows straight shooters to hurt people in the only way they can, their bank accounts. I do wish however that we could use the system to its fullest extent and utilize scripts that are already in place. I'd love to see a court room mapped out eventually and see the possibility of live proceedings, however given the logistics of it all, I doubt that would ever happen. All we need now is for GOV to kick off massively. 

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ashlyii    59
1 hour ago, Crocker said:

There would be, however I'm not going to force someone to stay at a golf club and ensure no trespassers get in at any given time. There's limitations to what we can and cannot do, expecting someone to do as such would just be ludicrous. Whilst there is advertisement in place, there's not any in-game advertisement as the club is designed for a specific class of people.

 

Then this alone is a problem. You can't expect every player to look through the businesses section on a forum. I know plenty of players who don't use Facebrowser or the forums and primarily focus on the server. If they're not seeing any active advertisements on the actual server, you can't blame them for thinking they can go there for a photo. Even just advertisements telling people to go to a website or something wouldn't go amiss. As I said, I've never known PM to give out such a big property to a player, so I still find the whole situation incredibly harsh for someone that might not have had any OOC knowledge of anyone owning it. It's a moot point regardless, I just hope this doesn't becoming a re-occuring thing with the court system. $90k fine just seems like greed to me for a photo but personally that's just my opinion - others will have a different view.

 

That being said, OP explained how a situation would be for people that simply can't afford it and I'm glad as there's some clarification out there for those of us that try to stay away from the "I'm rich" role-play. If my character got fined $90k for the same thing, well, I'd follow a similar path as Sten as it's just not worth the hassle and I'm glad to see that the courts have something in place to hopefully prevent a situation like this again. If a player chooses to CK rather than pay a fine, that shouldn't warrant a report on the forum - they've lost a character, that should be payment enough. If the goal, as you said, is to hit their bank account - surely the person CKing to avoid it should be an understanding your character takes on and feels a certain amount of guilt for?

I'm all for the court system, it's great and super entertaining - win or lose, it mimics real life but sometimes.. situations ICly can't be compared to it's real-life counterpart and I hope the court system has a way of being able to identify that. I hope we don't see every person crying trespassing now that they've seen the payout value and I hope every case is taken with a little hint of OOC understanding of certain situations. If a person generally has no knowledge that a place is in operation (as I said, up until the court system, I had no idea you were a thing and I'm active on Facebrowser.) As long as people who play average humans with basic bank accounts aren't afraid, which the OP has clarified, then hopefully we can see people not resorting to CKs or leaving the server. That was my main concern - which has been addressed!

 

 

Edited by ashlyii

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Crocker    169
7 minutes ago, ashlyii said:

Then this alone is a problem.

It's really not.

 

USA's citizens fith amendment right, a stand-your-ground law, is a very serious and real thing. People die over trespassing on private property. Just because the consequences haven't been there before, doesn't mean that when they are roleplayed, there should be an outcry about it. It's realistic. People's characters who have been to the yacht without leasing it from @Thirteen rightlfully have received charges as such from the Police Department. 

13 minutes ago, ashlyii said:

If my character got fined $90k for the same thing, well, I'd follow a similar path as Sten as it's just not worth the hassle

That just shows the attitude that you have to the server. 

 

If people really get that emotional over virtual currency then it's no loss to the server if they leave. 

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