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Punching Other Players Scriptwise - Clarification on rule 2.0: Powergaming.


Liam_Airey

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It depends on the situation.

 

A /me should be required regardless to start attacking someone but depending on the situation /me fighting doesn’t get the job done.  Mostly due to 3 reasons. 

 

1. People don’t like to accept that they should lose the fight. Sometimes we’re put in positions where we can’t win. We have to accept that. If a 18 year old, 120 pound British girl is getting attacked by a 275 pound biker it doesn’t matter how hard she fights, she isn’t winning.  

 

But instead of accepting they lost and actually RPing it they go straight to /b, /me and /do to create an RP wall around their character, they dispute every emote you make and turn a 5 minute beating to a 30 minute ordeal. 

 

2. People don’t like to RP the effects of a fight. The sad truth is, if I curb a player outside the convenience store and I don’t do script damage; some people won’t RP it, they’ll wait till you leave then pop up and head on their way. They might RP an injury like a black eye but many times I’ve seen players I gave a /me beat down walking around like nothing happened later the same day. 

 

3. The scripted damage system along with the respawn mechanic punishes players who make the mistake of getting killed, losing your inventory and your memory of an event is a real danger when you downed by the damage script. Do you hold on and hope someone finds you or do you accept your fate? 

 

 

Script fighting is aids at times but it’s more fluid the /me’s as long as your not being an idiot and turboing around it should be perfectly with in the rules to start an attack with /me’s but finish it with the actual mechanic.

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Emote fighting can easily be fixed by one simple tool that we already have.

 

The lovely /roll feature. Ask OOCly how the opposing player would like to roll, either out of 100, 10 or a classic 20. And then work out a system of successive emotes. Maybe three successful punches and you’re out like Christmas lights.

 

That’s how I usually do it, works pretty well, and the roll feature is honestly underutilized as a roleplay tool. It’s not only great for emote fighting but for making mistakes when doing things.

 

Just a thought however.

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Here's my two cents;

 

You have an engine which supports fist fights. Yes, it's wanky, but it can at the very least be universally applied. If someone does "/me rushes forward, quickly punching X square in the jaw." while the other person is typing, I'd take that ICly as a sucker-punch, a cheap-shot. That happens both in the real world, and the virtual one.

 

Where things get dicey is when players of drastically different body-types and heights fight one-another. Because of engine limitations the game treats both parties as equal, when in the context of roleplay, they shouldn't be. In cases where the 5'2 teen-aged girl who has no fighting experience starts laying a beatdown on Mr. 6'4, I'd roleplay it out accordingly or contact an admin for powergaming.

 

TL:DR - I think that engine fighting although limited, is a perfectly reasonable method of conducting certain fights. Adding a rule to stop engine fighting would arbitrate things too much. I believe that admin discretion on case-to-case mishandling of the engine fighting system remains appropriate.

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On 11/11/2019 at 4:57 PM, Henning said:

It depends on the situation.

 

A /me should be required regardless to start attacking someone but depending on the situation /me fighting doesn’t get the job done.  Mostly due to 3 reasons. 

 

1. People don’t like to accept that they should lose the fight. Sometimes we’re put in positions where we can’t win. We have to accept that. If a 18 year old, 120 pound British girl is getting attacked by a 275 pound biker it doesn’t matter how hard she fights, she isn’t winning.  

 

But instead of accepting they lost and actually RPing it they go straight to /b, /me and /do to create an RP wall around their character, they dispute every emote you make and turn a 5 minute beating to a 30 minute ordeal. 

 

2. People don’t like to RP the effects of a fight. The sad truth is, if I curb a player outside the convenience store and I don’t do script damage; some people won’t RP it, they’ll wait till you leave then pop up and head on their way. They might RP an injury like a black eye but many times I’ve seen players I gave a /me beat down walking around like nothing happened later the same day. 

 

3. The scripted damage system along with the respawn mechanic punishes players who make the mistake of getting killed, losing your inventory and your memory of an event is a real danger when you downed by the damage script. Do you hold on and hope someone finds you or do you accept your fate? 

 

 

Script fighting is aids at times but it’s more fluid the /me’s as long as your not being an idiot and turboing around it should be perfectly with in the rules to start an attack with /me’s but finish it with the actual mechanic.

False, British girl would simply naw through the biker's ankle. 

 

I see no issue in roleplaying a /me and waiting for a response in /do, as soon as they respond just go for it, they've demonstrated they have had ample time to react to the incoming conflict. 

 

Be smart tho, don't throw a single punch then start mawling their face. 

 

/me jabs a clenched fist into Johnny's face, following through with continuous blows to his face and abdomen

 

/do How would Johnny react?

 

Wait for Johnny's /do, then whale on him. Johnny's free to say he blocked the first jab, but that won't account for the secondary blows coming his way. 

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  • 2 months later...

Rolling is dogshit. RNG shouldn't be determining things, proper RP should. This is referred to as "playing to lose" in other games. A player should be playing out to lose a fight, not to win. Obviously this get stretched depending on situation and involved characters.

Edited by nik707
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/11/2020 at 7:33 AM, nik707 said:

Rolling is dogshit. RNG shouldn't be determining things, proper RP should. This is referred to as "playing to lose" in other games. A player should be playing out to lose a fight, not to win. Obviously this get stretched depending on situation and involved characters.

If both players are playing to lose, we would find a never ending loop of shortcomings implemented into the logical actions of a human being to win a fight..

 

I see things like weight, and height, combat experience etc being mentioned as a "be all, end all" modifier, and that is simply not the case... As the underdog has trophies on their shelf as well...

 

IN retrospect.... Script fighting used to be a thing of skill on SAMP... Some where horrible at it, and some where talented.... While I do not have  any experience in fighting players, specifically on the rage network... I can only assume that it is possible to get "better" at the fighting mechanic in the game, and thus retain a level of skill ICly.

 

A fight is a fight.. And if we expect two people to hash out /do's or /me's as the process of engaging in the aforementioned activity, we are only asking for more conflict on an OOC level, with players obviously not going to be consistently in agreement.....

 

If two players where to "Square up"... And then proceed to script fight, the chance of win/loose, at the basic level is more organic then trying to OOCLY  determine who has the quickest reactions, or success, through the means of /do or /me.

 

Fighting is in the game, and it is in fact an unbias mechanic professionally scripted with balances and imbalances, why are we against using it?

Edited by Alexandra_Forge
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Fighting is basically a joke because of how laggy and plagued with desync we are. If the new update fixes that then sure, but RP should always take first. Not to mention, two dudes running in circles trying to land a hit is a fuckin' joke, because most of the actual "mechanics" in fighting don't work in rage, IE blocking/dodging, etc.

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  • 4 weeks later...

My view is the script system is far to distorted to offer any meaningful value in an extended  RP scenario. If chasing heavy role play then a few things are worth considering 

 

- most fights irl involve people trying to survive an spontaneous fight rather than win, even the protagonist. As such grappling and holding is far more prominent than punching or "toe to toe" style engagement

 

- public fights tend to result in third parties seperating the fight without conclusion 

 

- sucker punching someone is about the most dangerous thing you can do. It is far more likely to result in serious injury than a fight (hitting the floor is more often the cause of injury rather than the strike) . As knock out or being stunned is likely so suddenly powering back through script is not realistic 

 

- two on one, three on one then 99% of the time means the "one" looses (unless you are Neo) 

 

I do like script for organised fights like cage fights or gang fights. Thrash it out in those situations people. 

 

Just my views and how I'll be doing it. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

In my opinion there's no reason to give "time to react" if the other character has displayed no sign of actually suspecting a fight to start. It is very easy to emote basic things like cupping your hands above your elbow or anything that would have the "fence" effect described above; or to simply have your character adopt a guarded demeanor through other emotes or speech.

 

Trying to hit someone from behind and trying to do the same against an opponent who already squared up to you aren't the same thing.

 

The bigger concern is people who treat street fistfights as some kind of fight to the death scenario; and feel like it can't be over until someone is laying on the ground.

 

The main  advantage of being bigger is to look intimidating. In actual fights, height and weight disadvantages can be overcome and it is foolish to refuse to lose because you decided your character is a 250 pounds brickhouse.

 

Besides that, while a 140 pounds girl probably can't destroy a biker built like a locomotive, she probably can outrun him. If you're going to invoke mass as an advantage, you also have to keep it mind its disadvantages.

Edited by arrdef
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