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Punching Other Players Scriptwise - Clarification on rule 2.0: Powergaming.


Liam_Airey

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I would argue that people should be more prepared for the consequences of their actions, rather than get upset and try to find rule loopholes when things don't go their way. The rules are there as a guideline as they literally can not provide for every eventuality, common sense must prevail. Sure, no one should ever leap into a script fight unless there is prior agreement but I fail to see the issue beyond that.

 

For example, and what I believe spawned this entire thread (although it could just be a total coincidence of course), if you stand on the street insulting people who are a part of or associated with an outlaw MC, you're lucky to only get hit. In the scenario last night I did not mean to script-hit the person and I explained as much in /b at the time, but after insulting people and getting hit just once for it, the first thing that happened was the other player went to /b to complain about powergaming. I would counter that it's powergaming to act like you're immortal to any and all damage when you play a specifically antagonistic character.

 

Things happen  in real life as consequences of mundane actions; if I spill water on the floor, someone might slip in that puddle later and injure themselves. That sense of action, reaction can not always be replicated in roleplay but where it can it should be. It is very easy not to put yourself in situations where you're likely to be hurt, some people just choose not to and the rules can not provide for those people to never suffer consequences.

Edited by Caoimheal
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Nobody heres argues that actions shouldn't have consequences. At least nothing I could read.

 

The problem is the believability (is that a word?) of script punching in an RP environment. A discussion is heated, three or four people are arguing, people are typing their answers, then suddenly somebody starts punching everyone to death. Everyone else is typing, so their first reaction is "what the fuck?" which will make them lose at least half a second. Enough to lose 40% of HP because they were typing, I'm not sure anyone can really explain this coherently from an IC perspective. And that's not even counting the person who might have alt-tabbed to check something, only to come back and find themselves dead without knowing what even happened.

 

Then the second problem is the characters' respective weights and experience in street fights. If my character is of a more nimble nature, it would make no sense for her to punch a big 6'4 dude to death (while he's OOC'ly typing). This brings nothing to RP. And if my char's of a more nimble nature and realizes the situation is tense, she won't stay in the way if a big dude starts becoming agressive. Except: if I'm typing, well, she will stay in the way (and probably die by the time I either ctrl+a & delete, or just type enter to close the chat box). Again, nothing brought to the RP. 

 

A key rule in most RP communities (not GTA V though, obviously) is literally "Don't be an ass". It's in the core rules of a lot of servers, in other games. As someone mentioned, RP'ing is a cooperative experience, people who script punch usually have a more competitive approach of RP, they're here "to win", which usually yields extremely poor RP for everyone involved. And starting to beat someone to death, abusing the fact that punches deal an abnormally high amount of damage, while the others are typing, is entirely being an ass. 

Edited by Topinambour
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My personal opinion here on the matter?  The RP should come first.  Always.  I have never liked the idea of people typing out a quick shitty emote and then rushing in for a script attack just to have an advantage, or to drive in the point that their character is a badass.  While I can understand that some situations will give people the advantage over someone else, 'rushing in' for an attack is absolute bullshit.  You can SEE a person coming, you HAVE time to react.  And it's up to the defending player to react accordingly and realistically.  Adding to it, going straight for a script punch eliminates the ability to react from the person, and forces the outcome on them thanks to how the targeting and combat works mechanically.  

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3 hours ago, Caoimheal said:

That sense of action, reaction can not always be replicated in roleplay but where it can it should be. It is very easy not to put yourself in situations where you're likely to be hurt, some people just choose not to and the rules can not provide for those people to never suffer consequences.

It goes both ways, you don't really seem like you know what you're talking about.

 

A rule against powergaming isn't some safety net for people who want to win in every situation and defend every attack, it's a rule that punishes BOTH SIDES for acting stupid.

 

You throw a punch at my character and I magically defend it even though realistically I wouldn't be able to? That's powergame, I'd be punished for it.

 

You throw a punch at my character and assume it hits, clocking me with a scripwise punch before I can even type out a response, EVEN if it's me "losing" in this situation?  That's powergame, you would be punished for it.

 

It's antisocial-rp, makes you look like all you wanna do is win, powergaming ISN'T GIVING ANOTHER PLAYER A CHANCE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, It's GIVING ANOTHER PLAYER A CHANCE TO RP, big difference and you should KNOW that while signing up for a HEAVY RP SERVER.

Edited by Liam_Airey
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I think you are a little close to this issue and have clearly taken offence for whatever reason. My intention was not to slight you. That being said, there are many instances where someone wouldn't see a punch coming and would therefore be surprised and stunned which you can obviously roleplay. I stand by my point in that common sense does need to be taken into consideration from all sides, the roleplay should always come first. Equally people should act in a realistic manner to begin with and not randomly pick fights.

Edited by Caoimheal
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Waiting for people to respond to RP in a rule would be dumb and this seems more like a rant than a suggestion.

 

Unless there's an admin there to enforce it, hardly anyone will accept the results of a /me fist fight because nobody wants to lose.

 

Script removes the grey area of /me in fights completely as when you punch someone they have the opportunity punch back, dodge it or run away I think this is the best way to handle fights. 

 

I'm not a fan of reading 100 word emotes of how your fist will break my face, just left click at me dude.

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This game has got beautiful fighting animations so if you wanna hit someone as long as you've got proper reasoning to do so, I'd say just fucking do it and let a fight ensue without /mes. Who cares? Just don't go all out and instantly murder your opponent. give the opposing party some time to spit out a /me if they want to. It's a grey area indeed and should remain that way since no two scenarios are alike, it all depends on the context and should be up to admins to decide whether or not an action was fair.

Edited by Raindance
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16 minutes ago, Critchalee said:

Unless there's an admin there to enforce it, hardly anyone will accept the results of a /me fist fight because nobody wants to lose.

 

That's the play-to-win attitude that's frowned upon. People should be level-headed enough, personally I have no issue with losing a fist fight whatsoever. I'm sure that's how the creator of this topic feels as well. A fist fight should be roleplayed out by default, it simply cannot be compared to a shooting as you're able to anticipate an incoming strike during a heated situation. All parties should be informed if they'd like to take it out in a script-based fight, that's how I see it. That's you stay level-headed as a roleplayer rather than pursuing that "play-to-win attitude" by bashing your mouse button after a three word /me. It gives the victim no opportunity to react and you immediately put them in deathmode.

 

Another issue with this is, say a 5'2" ft. woman gets into a heated altercation with a 6'4" ft. obese man. The woman can simply throw in that three liner and bash their mouse, immediately putting the man in deathmode. That defeats the purpose of roleplay entirely, the combat system doesn't line up with your character's attributes and the skill-set (say they're trained in the field of martial arts).

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