Fix the gun economy

[maramizo]

Short description:

Current gun economy is simply unrealistic. It's about ten times cheaper to get an assault rifle in Indonesia (country with least amount of guns per capita) off the black market than it is on this server. (reference 1) (reference 2)

 

Detailed description:

 

I'm browsing the forums and I see this beauty: 

 

__________________________

 

So I ask you this, fellow readers; who in their right mind, whom has just had the audacity to kill a person in the middle of the street, would not take an extra two minutes of their time for the potential of making up to $30,000? (from just a pistol, might I add. Have you an Uzi or other more powerful weaponry, we're talking more money)

 

I find it absurd, even worse, subpar to not roleplay such an action or taking such a risk, especially if your character's shot and robbed people before. Hell, I know for a fact some criminals out there IRL would do it for $1,000, let alone 30x that amount. 

 

I find that people whom do not roleplay stealing other people's guns after killing them to be non-RP, as someone having an object worth $30,000 is something the character must consider of value (unless if the character is incredibly rich), and that should heavily influence the IC decision that is done by said character. I find that any sort of compatibility argument between reality and in-game to be an absolute form of metagaming (literally OOC events influencing the outcome of solely IC events).

 

So then, I ask myself, why is it that criminals do not do this in real life? The answer is simple: Guns aren't expensive. You don't go to buy a pistol at $12,000. Pistols are cheap IRL. You can buy about 30 Mossbergs in California for the price of one colt in-game (click me).

 

You want people to stop robbing guns after killing them? Make them dirt cheap, make them available. Have weapons flood the server just as they flood the US IRL (oh, and by the way, just to stop the silly argument of "but the guns are legal and registered in the US!", the amount of unregistered weapons in the US is over 300 times more than the amount of registered weapons. With 1 million registered, and 300 million unregistered and untraceable, even in California, where registration is required by law, ghost guns have become steadily more and more available (reference 1) (reference 2) (reference 3). Or, if you don't believe me, buy parts yourself (seller 1) (seller 2), completely legal in the state of California!)

 

 

TL;DR: You want people to stop acting like guns are of such high value that they're willing to risk being caught for getting them? Then remove the value... simple.

 

Commands to add: N/A

Items to add: N/A

How would your suggestion improve the server?

Would stop Ethanol from calling people (and their good, suitable roleplay considering the environment they find themselves in) unrealistic when it's the server's own fault that it's meta encourages people to commit unrealistic actions because of its unrealistic prices.

 

Additional information:

Just scriptwise make the guns and ammo way cheaper at ammunation (say $100 for a gun, really) and give suppliers a shitload of guns for much cheaper prices & ask them to sell said guns for dirt-cheap. Once the gun economy gets rebalanced, guns should be much cheaper. If not, then it should be entirely agreeable that due to how pricey guns are, then it's completely fine to roleplay killing someone then stealing their gun. The playerbase should not be blamed for the nature of the economy.

 

P.S: The drug economy's trash, too, but one thing at a time, I suppose.

Edited September 4, 2019 by maramizo

[Max3]

+1 +1 +1

It's too hard and too expensive to get guns imo.

 

[JustAnM43]

Letting people buy guns for $100 at ammunation would be pretty stupid. I have yet to see how there's a lack of guns on the server, especially when almost everyone has it, legal or illegal. If you're having a hard time finding a source of guns or other shit, tough luck. Keep digging, you'll eventually score. Also comparing the IRL economy to the game one is pretty silly. Yes, congratulations, you can buy 30 Mossbergs in the USA for the price of one pistol on here. That's just the way it goes. If we were to change gun prices, we should change car prices too since I highly doubt I'd be cashing out 80 grand for a Volvo 242 from 1974. (Nebula), right? 

 

You're also suggesting that we flood the server with guns "like it's flooded in the USA." You're forgetting the fact that we're a server that gets 200-250 players daily. Why in the fuck would all 250 of them need guns in their possession? You're comparing a massive country to a playerbase of 200-ish players.

 

Another reason why "criminals don't do it IRL" because they don't know who used that gun, how many bodies it has on it, and then they realize you can get 45 to life if that gun has multiple bodies on it. Forensics play a big part in this, that we're still waiting for on GTA:W. Hopefully soon.

 

I also see loads of people with guns around, and the majority of friends I spoke to that dabbled in illegal roleplay had no issues getting their hands on a firearm. Just play it smart. On the topic of people picking up guns after a shootout, simply report it. Just because of a few bad apples doesn't mean you should change up the entire economy related to firearms. You're also taking away all of profits from gun shops by trying to make guns sold for $100.

 

Can't afford a gun? It's simple. You won't get a gun. Can't find a supplier? Tough luck, that's how it goes. Keep hunting. Guns should be hard to get and I'm pretty sure it'll stay that way.

 

tldr flooding the server with guns isn't gonna make anything better. only gonna encourage a DM mentality knowing people can get into senseless shootouts just so they can get another one on the cheap after that.

Edited September 4, 2019 by JustAnM43

[maramizo]

24 minutes ago, JustAnM43 said:

Letting people buy guns for $100 at ammunation would be pretty stupid. I have yet to see how there's a lack of guns on the server [1], especially when almost everyone has it, legal or illegal. If you're having a hard time finding a source of guns or other shit, tough luck [2]. Keep digging, you'll eventually score.

[...]

Why in the fuck would all 250 of them need guns in their possession? [3] 

[...]

Another reason why "criminals don't do it IRL" because they don't know who used that gun, how many bodies it has on it, and then they realize you can get 45 to life if that gun has multiple bodies on it. [4]

[...]

I also see loads of people with guns around, and the majority of friends I spoke to that dabbled in illegal roleplay had no issues getting their hands on a firearm [2 again]. 

[...]

Can't afford a gun? It's simple. You won't get a gun. Can't find a supplier? Tough luck, that's how it goes. [1 again]

 

For the most part you're not disagreeing with me, instead, you're arguing against statements that I haven't even made, including:

1. Guns are lacking on the server.
2. It's difficult to find weapons.
3. All players should have guns.
4. The pros outweigh the cons IRL when stealing a weapon.

I've never made any of these statements. All I've said was that guns are overpriced.

 

That having been said, the only disagreements we have are the following:

24 minutes ago, JustAnM43 said:

Letting people buy guns for $100 at ammunation would be pretty stupid. [...] only gonna encourage a DM mentality knowing people can get into senseless shootouts just so they can get another one on the cheap after that. [1]

[...] 

Also comparing the IRL economy to the game one is pretty silly. Yes, congratulations, you can buy 30 Mossbergs in the USA for the price of one pistol on here. That's just the way it goes. If we were to change gun prices, we should change car prices too since I highly doubt I'd be cashing out 80 grand for a Volvo 242 from 1974. (Nebula), right? [2]

 

You're also suggesting that we flood the server with guns "like it's flooded in the USA." You're forgetting the fact that we're a server that gets 200-250 players daily. Why in the fuck would all 250 of them need guns in their possession? You're comparing a massive country to a playerbase of 200-ish players. [3]

[...]

On the topic of people picking up guns after a shootout, simply report it. [4]

[...]

You're also taking away all of profits from gun shops by trying to make guns sold for $100. [5]

[...]

Guns should be hard to get [6]

 

1. DM is DM. I agree that a few bad apples shouldn't be the general consensus. If people get deathmatched, the the DMers should be punished as required. However, realism should not suffer as a consequence of this train of thought. Is realism not the main focus, after all?
2. The idea that "since other things are bad then no fix should be applied to anything" sounds silly. If a system's constituents are not working as intended, then they should be fixed one at a time, not entirely ignored. P.S: for just 3 pistols you can get a 100K car, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Enjoy having a fully modded Sentinel Ubermacht for 3 Glocks! Tell me in what world that makes any sort of sense.
3. It's called a ratio. You only need 100 people to compose a percentage that is accurate to +-1 person. This statement has no logical worth.
4. It shouldn't be reported given how valuable weapons are. I've already stated this in the original post.
5. I'm positive the profits can be marginalized so that the shops remain at a surplus; don't businesses get triple the entrance fee, for example?
6. Not if the roleplay is set in the US, no. They should definitely NOT be hard to get whatsoever.

Edited September 4, 2019 by maramizo

[Big_Smokes]

Although your suggestion in and of itself isn't necessarily without merit, the way you've decided to phrase it is all sorts of wrong. Try losing the passive aggressiveness and sarcasm, so that we may have a structured and reasonable discussion.

[Nervous]

I’ll quickly answer that once again someone fails to understand that $1GTAW != $1US. Our items have way higher $ values and you can put a x10 to every items that aren’t cars or properties. If everything was for sale at their real prices the economy would break down as everyone would have hundreds of guns whenever he feels like.

[Guest]

You're absolutely nuts if you think having 100 dollar guns would help the server. You also clearly do not understand how the gun circulation works, you twisted what i said on that request completely and selected to ignore what I consider a proper situation for something like that, you managed to throw IC repercussions out the window but worst of all, you suggested a solution which would kill the server. I'm gonna touch on all four for the sake of the community. 

 

1. Guns are not expensive. I'm sure a lot of you got a kick from me saying that but that's mostly due to you buying fifth hand guns from some gang member which inflates the price. Suppliers get guns cheap, whoever they push to also get it cheap and honestly, even the third person who gets the gun doesn't overpay. If you are the eight person buying that gun then I'm sorry but you either needed that gun real badly ICly or you're an idiot for paying x10 its price. Find a better connection or try finding the supplier instead of being coned into buying a gun for fifty grand or some other ridiculous amount. 

 

2. Flooding the server with guns would kill the economy you want to 'fix'. The balance we currently have isn't perfect but it's not bad by any means IF you're capable of establishing proper IC connections. I personally came from a server which permitted me to take 9999 guns from a warehouse. Everyone and their mother got guns over there and what happened? Tons of abusive, tons of DM, fucking OOC trade centers, etc... Whoever is smart enough to get them ICly will. Whoever doesn't? Not our problem from an OOC perspective. If you wanna contribute to this flow, simply apply for supplier. 

 

3. The way circulation works is simple. Each supplier gets x guns every couple of weeks. He then either sells them to a client directly or hands them to an underling who sells it to a client. I personally moderate as many of these transactions as I can and I can safely tell you that none of the clients pay insane amounts, even if they're the third owner of those guns. So the price is fine, the way of obtaining guns isn't out of reach. What's the amount per drop? It depends on the person, what they're RPing and FMs decision. The amount isn't big but it's also enough to sustain several groups of people (assuming they don't go around DMing each other daily). So all in all, if you don't sell to people who think they're rambo you can easily support three factions, if you're a supplier who's in a faction that includes your own organisation. If you do well, the amount is increased but honestly, how many people would a single group sell to on a regular basis? Clearly not every faction out there, which is why you need to be smart and be one of those 3-4 organisations which that particular person supplies. 

 

4. Picking up guns and realism. I'll start off by giving you a counter example of something similar to what you've posted which I've approved. An entire group of people was gunned down in Sandy Shores at night. No people around, middle of nowhere. A known criminal from that are was cruising around and saw the bodies. He scouted the area before taking all of their belongings and fucking off. 

 

In the example which you've provided, the person performed a daytime hit in the middle of the city, got out of the car and instantly started demanding that the other person gives up the gun in /b. ICly, if you just killed a person at 4pm in the middle of the fucking street, your concern is to get out as soon as possible. OOCly, people are incapable of making proper connections and are gun hungry so they take the guns without considering what an actual person would do in that situation. So don't come to me and tell me that this type of thing is caused due to gun prices or regulations. It's caused by people who aren't capable of reaching out ICly and buying guns which is OOC thinking which affects an IC decision. 

 

 

To summarise: the prices aren't the problem, the amount isn't the problem, the availability isn't the problem and neither are my regulations as a manager. People who cannot establish IC connections who are driven by an OOC desire to grab as many weapons as possible as opposed to being driven by what their character would do in a given situation is the problem. 

 

I'm not rewarding that type of thing. If you cannot keep your IG actions IC  over a few guns then switch servers.