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Big_Smokes

The Police Department & You

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Keane    198

The thread has been unlocked.

One important thing to remember is that this thread is here to give LSPD leadership feedback on how they can improve the faction. Feedback, when given in a constructive way, should not be met with over-the-top defensive responses. If you fail to see any value in the feedback being given in this thread, you are part of why members of the community feel that there is issues within the faction. While there are many examples of poor roleplay around people that break IC laws, it does not mean that every player in an illegal faction that posts here is also someone that frequently breaks the rules. There was some good feedback but it was unfortunately derailed by people who were not open to said feedback. 

Similar advice can be given to those outside the LSPD replying here. The faction isn't entirely made up of robocop self-inserts that speak like they got off the plane from London five minutes ago. There is a lot of good roleplayers in the faction. It's just the nature of a law enforcement faction that you usually see them when they are there to bring consequences down on your character. It's easy to get frustrated when an enjoyable roleplay scene is cut short by a police response.

 

Many LSPD faction members are still learning. Just like learning how to roleplay in a particular illegal faction, it takes time to learn how to roleplay a law enforcement officer well. A lot of the LSPD members you interact with have only been in the faction for a month or two. On top of learning all the IC and OOC faction regulations, the person has to learn about American law, IC laws, and how to portray an American cop at the same time. It's easy to identify weak roleplayers in an illegal faction because they're much smaller. This makes it easier for the faction leaders to teach them. In a faction as big as the LSPD, it can be more difficult for the people at the top to see who the bad roleplayers are.

 

If you have a negative experience with specific faction members, report them privately to LSPD leadership. This will help them identify the weaker roleplayers and help them improve in the same way the leadership of an illegal faction helps their members improve their roleplay. 

Everyone here has to remember that on the forums, we're not cops and robbers. We're all community members that want an enjoyable experience when we log in. Henning hit the nail on the head in his last post. As long as both sides see it as "Us vs Them", then we'll never see any improvements. We can't assume that the majority of people that do a particular roleplay are terrible because of a few bad apples. 
 

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Max3    68

One thing is all the meaningless car chases. 

 

Most areas in America have anti chase rules; do not chase unless it is a violent crime. No officer would risk everyone’s life for $180.64 that he won’t ever get to touch.

Edited by Max3
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Keane    198

Sorry for locking it again so soon after my last message but I think it's best if we give LSPD leadership a chance to respond to what's been said. I unlocked it a little too early. It will be unlocked as soon as a representative of the LSPD is able to respond to everything that has been said so far.

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Homie    6

This is coming from a new player in the server, in my 2 weeks of GTA:W I've had a few interactions with the PD, they all have been awful, extremely awful.

I don't wanna say that the whole faction needs to be checked but I sadly haven't managed to come across a cop that roleplayed properly.

I've seen cops riding on 200-300K cars while off-duty. How? Why?

The play-to-win mentality is strong, it's hard to call GTA:W a heavy roleplay server when those things happen. 

 

Please, be more strict with who you invite to your faction, I've came across 5-6 cops that don't even finish their sentences with a dot.

If you're in a situation where you rely on hiding from them, you're fucked. They have X-Ray vision. Not even 10 minutes ago a cop claimed to see my shadow in a completely dark alley where they had no clue I was gonna be in. 

 

Again, I don't really like to say that all of them are like that, but in 2 weeks that's all I've came across. Maybe I have bad luck? OK. 

Even if it is, these type of things should NEVER happen on a server that claims to be heavy on roleplay. 

I'm not over reacting, it freaks me out that civilians who're so called "mallrats" are more capable to roleplay properly than half of the PD. 

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Back in my Ghetto BoyZ faction we had alot of excellent interactions with the LSPD, although unfortunately a minority of them would often play to win. I say a minority, because a considerable amount of the roleplayers in LSPD are very skilled RPers and actually know what the're doing.

 

I'm not sure how shit is now, but I hope that when I return to the server I see more activity from the LSPD's gang divison, if they have one.

 

It'd also be dope to see more screenshots of what gang officers & also regular police officers do day to day. Could have gang unit officers visiting gang members, documenting suspected gang members, talking to youngsters in rundown neighborhoods to try and discourage them from banging, shit like that would be lit as fuck. If stuff like what I've mentioned is already happening, then that's awesome & I hope to see it ingame.

Edited by El Ghetto Man

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Big_Smokes    94

Hello everyone. Sorry for not responding for a week or so. Life's been busy! But let's get back on track. Going to try to cover as much as possible in this post.

 

On 12/1/2019 at 2:18 AM, eTaylor said:

People tend to start a gang in a street with no gang history what-so-ever and suddenly expect to be recognized as the most dangerous street gang in the world where officers shiver in fear. I'd argue that if you want your gang to have a certain reputation with police you should actually earn that reputation through roleplay, and accept the subsequent consequences of having such a status. 

 

On another note, how do the gun racks work? 

This is an example of a gun rack. For more in depth info, it's best to just google it. Plenty examples out there.

Image result for gun rack police cruiser

 

On 12/3/2019 at 4:25 AM, DLimit said:

I wouldn't suggest that it was bad R.P.... But, a human being R.P.ing as an overly sympathetic Law enforcement officer being well aware that a lower-ranking member is being exploited to conduct their bidding. I OOCly or ICly am unaware as to whether the person had allowed my character to be "Free to Go" in order to potentially conduct an even larger investigation on the situation.

 

I.E. Why arrest one person when you can potentially send another person to follow him and spy on the entire operation, as a whole? Clearly, arresting this person would lead to him remaining silent. However, letting him go to potentially investigate the situation on a grander scale? That's amazing roleplay as both a civilian and and officer.

I.E. "Well, this male is only a lower-ranking member of an even larger operation. He'll be free to go. Just take notes on who he hangs with, and gather intelligence on them."

Hypothetically, if my character were to be arrested for such an offense, then his own associates would probably remove him from the ring to prevent the L.S.P.D. from gathering more intel on them.

On a side note. This person was off-duty, functioning as a regular citizen, at the time. It's a possibility that she separates her work life from her personal life, which is why she took this to a personal level.

Edit: Even if neither of those cases listed above were true... She could've even been a lower-ranking officer with zero experience on these type of situations, allowing the incident to slide due to her inability to comprehend the seriousness of the offense.

It's not just "Bad RP"... If anything, it's good R.P., as numerous factors might've lead to that decision. It's an I.C. issue, which could be based on any of the scenarios listed above, or just simply based on poor "police training"... 

 

Read over this piece in the thread. I uh, don't know the other side of the story so I'm going to be really careful answering this one based on the info you've provided. Without diving into it too much, there is a limit of things my police officers can realistically do from an IC perspective before ''ignoring crimes for the good of the community'' starts becoming OOC incompetence. There's a very fine line there and I have to say Henning was not wrong there. However, I don't know who the officer was, if the charges are perhaps being deferred while they're attempting to recruit the character as a CI, etcetera etcetera. Tricky area that's really hard to discuss in a topic like this without the proper context.

 

EDIT: I just lost half my response because of the forums being stupid. Going to try to re-write as much of it as I can and then just split my replies into multiple posts.

On 12/3/2019 at 7:57 AM, eTaylor said:

I'm sorry, but should it be the player's job to monitor and uphold the roleplay quality in PD or should your command team take care of that? It sounds like you're blaming other people for roleplay complaints on account of them not explicitly reporting it to your faction's hierarchy. If they don't explicitly report it, does that mean complaints that members in the community feel are valid are left unanswered or ignored? Of course it's not feasible to crack a whip at everyone's whim because someone is complaining on the forums, but if you're going to respond to complaints could do better than "did you report it". Because you're basically saying "yeah I sort of acknowledge your noise but take it somewhere else", it defeats the purpose of public discourse. 

 

It's not a matter of of punishing an officer IC or OOC either. I don't think anyone outside of PD genuinely cares what happens to an officer, I'd be more concerned about the roleplay culture. That every member of the faction logs on with the full realization that they have the power to completely destroy people if they neglect their roleplay. That they remain reasonably fair towards the people they interact with. And when I say fairness I don't mean that PD and criminals should be equal. But when you have officer that think it's perfectly acceptable to roleplay Narnia style gun rack systems that give them access to every single piece of equipment conceivable, you might want to look into that.

 

Members of the PD are players just as everyone else, they're not NPC's here to provide the server with roleplay. They deserve to be participants in the roleplay they enjoy, not just be the provider. But being in such a faction it's often the position you find yourself in, and if people get on with a bad attitude towards that you're going to get problems. I shouldn't have to run and file a report every time I don't agree with a member's roleplay, command should be picking these things up themselves and do everything they can to uphold a good roleplay culture. Bad cops are very easily recognized by their bad roleplay attitude, and the culture should exist where members regulate each other. That members are not afraid to confront each other bad performances or attitudes. And command should make sure people don't advance based on forum performance or OOC standing alone, but their merits as a roleplayer and what they contribute to the community as well.  

 

If you're a criminal you can't see the difference between the good cop and the bad cop unless you've roleplayed with them before, and I've had to many mixed experiences that I personally don't give PD a fair chance at all. And I agree that's hypocritical and bad on my part, but I have everything to loose if I run into the wrong member. And losing to the police isn't the part that creates the negative experience, @Mytrix can attest to that because the roleplay I had with him was great and I enjoyed it very much despite getting caught. But when I get pulled over I shouldn't have to check the member's name OOCly to gauge if I'm going to have an enjoyable roleplay experience, and decide if it's  worth sticking around for that. I should be able to expect enjoyable and fair roleplay from every member regardless of IC consequences.

 

And again, fairness doesn't mean equal playing ground in gun play or chases. A criminal should never be able to overthrow law enforcement by force alone. Fair roleplay to me just means a fair approach to the roleplay interaction, making sure it's not one sided. Making sure that I'm just as much of a participant as the other party. Because while the PD member is free to do as he or she pleases, I'm stuck with the roleplay. And if it's some stereotypical robocop brick wall with the character depth of a puddle of water, that experience can be excruciating. 

Don't just focus on an image or how to portray something, in-fact don't portray anything. Be what you want to be. People are always going to be negative,. And I'd say the majority of the PD are doing just fine by the way. As long as the core focus of the PD is to provide the best possible roleplay everything else should logically fall in line, that's just how I see it.

 

Hello eTaylor. You've written a lot of replies to this thread already which is highly appreciated. Let me delve into your replies on this page as well as I can. First and foremost, I disagree. You paint a picture of the standing that is incorrect. In MY eyes, it is extremely unfair that my officers spend about half their playing time on forums. No-one wants to be on the forums, we want to be in the game. It comes with the territory. They are the only players that are forced to write up every action they take, because it's realistic. It's what police officers do. It's a choice they made. But on the other hand, players in the LSPD also are the ones that often find themselves at the mercy of administrators because of players... Well, abusing, not following the rules, yada yada. And in all those cases, the LSPD can't get away with not reporting those players. My faction members can't get away with not pursuing action: Because the faction mandates that they do. If they don't follow through, there will be questions asked. When you run an organization that runs like clock work, when there are gaps, there are questions. Thus we try to minimize the gaps.

 

(Example: We have a pursuit on guy X. Guy X drives like his car comes straight out of star wars. Officers lose sight. Officers now have to file an arrest warrant OR report him for non RP driving.)

 

As you can see in the example above, 9 out of 10 situations, there is no turning the other cheek for us. Because evading is a felony and our faction rules, to protect the community from anyone joining the LSPD with bad intentions, make it so that our faction members without permission are not allowed to ignore felonies. Thus they must always follow through in order not to break our OOC rules. Thus they are required by faction rules to report that player. Player is reported, gets dealt with by administrator, learning moment for them, if they had the right intentions it doesn't happen again. See how that works? It's a feedback loop.

 

If you turn that around, wouldn't you say that as a member of the community it is just as important for you to speak up against INDIVIDUAL members of the LSPD making mistakes rather then argue it's not your responsibility? I would argue that any member of this community, if it has the community's best interests at heart, should want to bring this to someone's attention. It doesn't have to be with a specific negative connotation nor does it have to be a super elaborate 300 page 5000 word report. It can be as simple as sending me a DM on disc

 

I would argue that it's unfair of anyone to expect the LSPD to be much better then anyone else if you find yourself reluctant to take a step to help out. I'm not asking you to write out a massive application with extreme detail so that I can give my faction member feedback. Not at all. Neither do I ask of you that you act like a CCTV camera every time you see one of my faction members around. But the least anyone can do that has the best interests of this community at heart is speak up when they see something go wrong and then actually follow through on it. My DMs are open to everyone and always have been. Everyone that has DMed me following this thread (which are a fair amount of people at that point) I've had discussions with, taken reports from, and I believe everyone has left satisfied. I am not trying to put any mistakes by my faction members on the community. To the contrary, I take full responsibility for them. As faction leader it's my job to ensure my faction performs to the best of it's abilities. But I would by lying if I said I could do that on my own. Yes, I have a kickass command team. But people actually speaking up and reporting mistakes helps. It genuinely does.

Edited by Big_Smokes

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Big_Smokes    94
On 12/3/2019 at 5:14 AM, Ronnie two poles said:

I also forget her name but on another side note, females and the LSPD. If this fits you, you need to remember you are a female. Yesterday I seen a female detective alone in front of a gang area sitting openly within 10 feet of about 20 or more active gang members. Just sitting there. I thought it was extremely unrealistic seeing she was a female along with the lack of RPing fear. 

Please read the original post. It is clearly stated without a lack of nuance this thread isn't here to provide non-contextual bashing of my faction or it's members. If you have a complaint, DM me on the forums. DM me on discord. Forum PM me on the LSPD forums, name is Charles Hughes. File a roleplay report with the LSPD command team. Time and a place, this ain't it. This thread was specifically made to combat faction-wide issues and be more transparent about the LSPD. To provide information. If you need to vent, do it elsewhere.

 

On 12/3/2019 at 6:32 AM, SULLI said:

Again, as stated before.. Did you speak to PD command or report for the role play quality? I don't see why it's being posted here. Obviously something like this would not be taken lightly within our faction but we don't watch every single members off duty role play. It's not possible. If you have a complaint regarding the role play realism and quality of an Officer, report it. As Smokey has said, his DM's are always open. I can tell you from experience, if this situation was found out ICly by command, that Officer would be severely punished unless they were a Detective performing their duties. 

 

You've got to remember, we are part of the biggest faction on this server with way too many members to keep tabs on at all times. So if you witness things like this, send it up the chain. Help them, help you. Icly or OOcly. We strive to keep role play quality levels high.

Just to make sure you guys understand this (also in response to you, eTaylor), Sulli isn't telling you off for bringing bigger issues to light. He was trying to point out this thread is not here to single out individual members and complain about them. Reference what I wrote above.

 

On 12/3/2019 at 10:25 AM, Valeriya said:

I would like to point out that LSPD is not as bad as it looks like.
I've always had a lot of interactions with the PD and they were always fair; Where nobody broke a single rule & both parties roleplayed accordingly and there was no robo-cop type of things.

Let's be honest, we are all humans and either us or the PD can slip sometimes, it's our nature, and I find totally unfair when I see someone arguing about their job when that person itself it's not doing any better.
Should I remind you guys that in before their acceptance, they have to go through a long process until they fully enroll, and even then, the time it takes for them to adjust themselves within the faction. But nobody cares about it, isn't it? They should be given their credits for all the effort they put in to become a police officer ( Hopefully we have people doing it ).
As human beings we are used to label someone when they fuck up once, yet we don't care how many times they did it right.
🤗
Keep it up, LSPD! 🙂

 

Thank you. That's very nice to hear. Personally I like to take any situation in game with a grain of salt; people make mistakes and most times they are genuine. Doesn't make the experience any less fun for me. Thank you for taking the time to write this, it means a lot to me and the people working hard on this faction. 

 

On 12/3/2019 at 12:22 PM, pateuvasiliu said:


This is something really petty to be up in arms about. Hell it's not just petty, you're literally wrong.

 

I've been roleplaying for 7 years and ''...'' is used in plenty games with dialogue or just roleplay to show that the person is making a pause or is speechless. Yes, writing 3 paragraphs about how my character's sapphire orbs are interlocked with yours in an awkward stare would be more literary, but we're on a roleplay server that generally keeps posts short and doesn't engage in purple prose. Especially since we were in a small room with 10 other people, which makes the chat spam unbearable. So I  kept my posts short and sweet. This is a really silly thing to complain about.

 

And it is proper English. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

An ellipsis (plural ellipses; from the Ancient Greek: ἔλλειψις, élleipsis, 'omission' or 'falling short') is a series of dots (typically three, such as "…") that usually indicates an intentional omission of a word, sentence, or whole section from a text without altering its original meaning

 

In reported speech, the ellipsis is sometimes used to represent an intentional silence, perhaps indicating irritation, dismay, shock or disgust. This usage is more common amongst younger, Internet-savvy generations.[citation needed]

 

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/50559/using-ellipsis-to-indicate-a-pause-in-conversation

This, and the LSPD isn't a classroom. We have everything from Cambridge English graduates to people who taught themselves the English language by watching twenty-some seasons of NCIS. The point is that everyone is welcome so long as they pass the server requirements and have a higher level of speaking/understanding of the English language. That doesn't make them perfect or native speakers, though. Regardless, my Assistant Chief Roozles has been working with supervisors on his own free time to help people out with making serious grammatical mistakes or screwing up some of the more nuanced areas of the English language.

 

The LSPD makes up what, 2% of all registered users on GTAW? If the other 98% starts speaking and writing English as if they were born in the United Kingdom or the United States and have a Cambridge C2 Level certificate in English, that's when I'm going to take this issue more serious. Until then, grammatical and writing fuckups happen because the majority of our playerbase is European and non native English speaking across the board. Hell, our founder Nervous tries his best but still makes mistakes sometimes. We're here to have fun and try our best to portray a character accurately, don't let silly grammar or spelling mistakes take away from you having fun. We're making an effort here but until someone starts paying me the salary of an English teacher, I'm not going to be giving any classes.

 

On 12/3/2019 at 5:06 PM, Tseard said:

Smokey and his comrades are handling certain situations that need attention already, they monitor people their roleplay and take reports, whether they are IC or OOC and act on it. They can't see everything so that's why people encourage you to report it to whatever party it needs to be reported to. Matter of fact, this thread exploded (again) within hours during midnight by people making accusations and throwing in rotten apples without giving the appropriate parties time to even take measures against said apparent bad roleplay. 

 

No player should be taking a stance and evaluate the roleplay of a police officer 24/7, there are other people and groups such like LSPD STAFF and Player Management for that and believe me, they are actively keeping tabs on it. 

 

Reporting someone doesn't take a shitload of time or ''paperwork'' to do. If you have evidence, you can just approach Smokey himself and explain what was wrong. 

 

Refer to the above! It really is that simple. If you have an issue with an individual faction member, just hop in my DM's. Name's smokey#3454. You get a free complimentary donut with every complaint.

 

On 12/3/2019 at 5:19 PM, jop said:

It's important for everyone here to understand that building the foundations of a character reflects not only on the person but the entire basis of their role play and in this instance, this faction. Regardless of your concern about the faction, it's not their fault. It boils down to two important key factors that have stemmed the dawn of time throughout countless communities and situations. 

 

The players need to follow someone who is good at role playing, good at talking, good at making their characters feel real, talk real and good at being cool in their role. When a new player joins and they follow someone who is bad, they will turn out bad. If a player joins and follows someone who is good, they will end up good and that's how the pendulum swings. 

 

Your character isn't a cop first, your character is your character. Don't put being a cop first, put it second. Traits, feelings, distastes and problems should be what your character shows first, not the other way around. I don't think you should be singling players out on a public medium though. Contact the faction and let them handle it, that's not cool to do.

 

Everyone will experience something or someone being bad, but that's one apple from the entire tree. The standard role play mentality will slowly form in time, Rome wasn't built in a day. 

 

Edit: I have a bunch of guides that help in this aspect. Roleplay, grammar, traits and so forth, if you're interested, message me and I'll slide you them. 

Thanks for your guides, dude. We're working on integrating some of them at the moment, and there's certainly interesting stuff in there (we got access to them a week or so ago). Help is always appreciated.

 

On 12/3/2019 at 6:55 PM, CloutToken said:

This is something I also strongly support as a member of the faction. Believe me, being based off the LAPD can be very interesting and honestly opens up a whole new world of RP rather than being just the usual police department on a GTA roleplaying server.

I don’t usually bring up other servers, but LSRP did this on SAMP and I was skeptical and against the idea at first, however I eventually grew to love it much more as opposed to the old days. The roleplay quality and the roleplay experiences I’ve had on there with police department, despite what some may say, is honestly incomparable to any other police faction I have interacted with and is nothing like it was in the past. Like stated, you gotta break out of your comfort zone sometimes.

I think the cat's out of the bag on this one, CloutToken. I doubt I can find any person in the faction who doesn't know your opinion on the subject 😉

 

On 12/3/2019 at 7:17 PM, Declan said:

So, you're telling me someone is going to get up and leave their cushy job in another country. Come to America, wait five years to get permanent resident alien status just to join the LAPD? Bearing in mind that you'd need to consider... the cost of living (housing, food, basic essentials) why would someone do that just to join the LAPD when they can join their respective police departments in their own country? It makes no sense whatsoever. 

 

I get it. People like to be unique with what they roleplay, we all do. But there's a line you need to draw when it comes to roleplaying certain nationalities. Yes, maybe there are a few British police officers in the LAPD but the fact of the matter is it's dominated by Americans. Latinos, whites and blacks make up the majority. 

 

On 12/3/2019 at 7:29 PM, Midwest said:

Southern California law enforcement agencies are predominately White American and Latino. 

 

It's not very common to find police officers who're straight up foreigners. Like, maybe one in two hundred. Not to mention you need to be a resident and citizen of America for so long before you apply. Most people don't properly roleplay entry into the country, and just show up anyways.

 

It also makes, very very very little sense to up and move across the world to join the LAPD/LSPD.

 

 

I highly doubt every criminal in game is foreign born and speaks any language other then English (or Spanish) fully 100% correct with no accent whatsoever. Yet that's also the reality for the criminal side. We're starting to put more work into encouraging our faction members to apply with American born characters, but this issue is as widespread on the server as it is in the LSPD. We do our best, but this is something that will require some serious attention from the other faction's leadership teams, server management and PLM. I'm not going to restrict certain types of characters from joining the faction (other then what requirements realistically exist. We've based ours off of those that the LAPD has for citizenship etc) and am therefore reliant on players teaching players.

 

On 12/3/2019 at 7:37 PM, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

It also makes very very very little sense for you to critique characters you know absolutely nothing about other than they aren't American born. If you don't know the circumstances of a character's relocation, then it's not really up to you to judge whether their character makes sense or not. Stay in your own lane, and concentrate on your RP and making it better.

On 12/3/2019 at 10:52 PM, Ronnie two poles said:

 

Why would any character move countries around the World to join their law enforcement department? It's good criticism. People need to learn how to role play their character and not their self.  It's not normal at all to run into police acting superior, saying obscure lingo or just not roleplaying a character properly. I think there needs to be some sort of education upon character development and joining the LSPD.   

Refer to my above post. The Saint makes a good point.

 

On 12/3/2019 at 8:14 PM, Declan said:

That's where you're wrong. We're simply critiquing and bringing up certain points that we think are damaging the image of the LSPD, this being one of the main ones; a simple solution for this is to enforce a character background check (OOC-wise. Writing a short biography to get a gist of the character)  of some sorts. You'd be able to easily weed out the bad apples. 

 

Roleplay is obviously the key factor pertaining to this issue at hand here and the discussion got out of hand so I'd like to draw attention to another one of my points:

"I agree with part C as well, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Things can always improve drastically through a number of changes. I believe the LSPD should be doing their best to emulate the LAPD because this gives members a lot of material they can study and research. The LAPD has lots of media coverage. Use that to your advantage."

 

What is the LSPD leadership's stance on this? We've seen the recently created LSSD strive towards emulating the LASD. Is the LSPD planning on doing the same? 

No, it's not. In fact, you are wrong. Including OOC backgrounds in applications does nothing but make the recruitment process more tedious, more intensive and does literally nothing of value whatsoever beyond the type of checks we already do. Tried it out, didn't work.

 

Also, key word: The LSSD is being created - it doesn't exist as of yet. In the context of this discussion it is far easier to create a faction in a certain image and force people to abide by it. It's ten times harder to change an existing faction so radically. Also, I don't think it's fair to say the LSSD is emulating the LASD. They are taking a lot of things from the LASD, yes, but their faction is still created in such a way that it's properly modified to work on the server. The LSPD by en large is going the same route and has been doing so ever since I became Chief. There is no time table for these changes, however, as we carefully review things and how they impact the faction as a whole. We implement things when we're ready to implement them, and we aim to continue at that pace. Don't forget we're building the LSPD and modifying it at the same time, while it has already been functional in the game for two years. Makes change a little more difficult, but the challenge is a welcome one.

 

Our goal is to roleplay a most realistic police department with the LAPD in mind as the template we grab things wrong. That doesn't mean we don't modify things to make more sense in the context of the server. Example: The LAPD has the Counter Terrorism and Special Operations Bureau. In this are the major crimes division, metropolitan division, etc. Counter terrorism in it's truest form is not something we have any use for on the server whatsoever. So we deleted the Counter Terrorism part, called it the Special Operations Bureau and only used those divisions we have an actual use of in the game. 

Edited by Big_Smokes

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Bospy    64
1 hour ago, Big_Smokes said:

Also, key word: The LSSD is being created - it doesn't exist as of yet. In the context of this discussion it is far easier to create a faction in a certain image and force people to abide by it. It's ten times harder to change an existing faction so radically. Also, I don't think it's fair to say the LSSD is emulating the LASD. They are taking a lot of things from the LASD, yes, but their faction is still created in such a way that it's properly modified to work on the server. The LSPD by en large is going the same route and has been doing so ever since I became Chief. There is no time table for these changes, however, as we carefully review things and how they impact the faction as a whole. We implement things when we're ready to implement them, and we aim to continue at that pace. Don't forget we're building the LSPD and modifying it at the same time, while it has already been functional in the game for two years. Makes change a little more difficult, but the challenge is a welcome one. 

 

Our goal is to roleplay a most realistic police department with the LAPD in mind as the template we grab things wrong. That doesn't mean we don't modify things to make more sense in the context of the server. Example: The LAPD has the Counter Terrorism and Special Operations Bureau. In this are the major crimes division, metropolitan division, etc. Counter terrorism in it's truest form is not something we have any use for on the server whatsoever. So we deleted the Counter Terrorism part, called it the Special Operations Bureau and only used those divisions we have an actual use of in the game. 

 

Touching upon this point, there is often a "purist" argument many people make, but there's bigger fish to fry than trying to emulate things 1:1 in some cases. While I do think it is a good thing to mirror the department, I think rightfully Smokey is focusing on functionality first and foremost. This is our focus in the LSSD - while we do aim to portray the LASD, ultimately I'd like to see our faction exist first. After we exist, it will be something we focus on more, but you need to make compromises. It's unfair to compare the LSSD and LSPD on this point, as we're intended to be two different beasts. Although we'll share some functions, it's been thoroughly plotted out to avoid any sort of malicious competition.

 

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking it's by any means easy to change a faction's mindsets or attitudes quickly. It's a process, a long-term one, and a big investment

 

You can make your faction completely 1:1 with the real life department but ultimately none of that means shit if the people in the faction don't have the right mindset. I was a big reformer in other places, and I'll tell you more than anyone I was a big fan of many changes at those places, but those changes didn't happen just because people wanted to make sure they followed the LAPD's pursuit protocol or divisions. The most important thing drilled into people's heads was mindset. That doesn't come from realism, mindset comes from teaching, and what Smokey has said to me and in this thread is he intends to teach people mindset and instill a culture which avoids play-to-win attitudes. I was closer to many of the reformers at those places than other people here, and I'll tell you this - mindset was more important to them than anything else. Is a roleplayer malicious? That's all that matters. If it can be taught, it will be taught. If people have good intentions, then they will succeed. Once mindset is worked out, realism can become a focus.

Edited by Bospy
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Big_Smokes    94
On 12/3/2019 at 10:54 PM, Keane said:

 

Tactics like these should never happen, in my opinion. Police should be coming out on top in most situations but they should be using tactics that are actually used by American police. Bringing police tactics from Britain or anywhere else outside of the US is just going to bring the quality of the faction down.

I don't see why someone on a motorcycle should be rammed off unless it's being used as a form of lethal force where the lethal force is justified. An example someone fleeing from the scene of a shooting on a motorcycle. At that point, lethal force is justified and legal. I could say the same for some of the PITs being performed at high speeds. 

Beanbag usage is a whole other issue. In my opinion they are used way too much. The only way I've seen beanbags used by American police is for situations where there is someone armed with a knife or other dangerous object. The LAPD use of force videos they have been releasing is a great place to see how they are used in a US law enforcement environment. I have yet to see any examples of beanbag shotguns being used on motorcycle riders or people running away on foot but feel free to give me examples of this if I'm wrong. 

 

Refer to my above post about the use of force ladder in reply to Sebz. Some of my supervisors get creative sometimes and it's not always for the better. Bikes should never be rammed with the intent to get the rider off. Only with the intent to end the threat. Period.

 

Your notion about beanbags is wrong, however. Either that or the terminology. Beanbags are generally used when dealing with suspects that have a deadly weapon OR present an imminent danger but don't require lethal force to be taken down. The reason why beanbags here are not an accurate representation of what they are IRL is because the taser isn't. Taser isn't actually used quite as often or quite as succesfully IRL. Taser bad. Pins don't connect bc shirt, coat, too lose, only one pin connects, etc. It also depends on whether or not the department has access to tasers or beanbag shotguns, which by far not all American Police Departments do. Saying ''American Police'' is equally vague as bringing European Police Departments into the mix. You cannot compare all American Police Departments because there are significant differences in equipment and quality of equipment.

 

In the context of the LAPD, this might well be true but it also might not. Regardless, we are currently in the process of updating our Use of Force policies to more accurately represent those generally used by US Police Departments with access to similar equipment as the LSPD does, but still with a grain of salt / nuance because there is a big difference in how equipment is utilized in comparison to IG and OOC.

 

On 12/4/2019 at 2:17 AM, Henning said:

Yes. 

 

A dead criminal is a dead case, Your job as a police officer is to catch the bad guys not kill them. If you can't catch them, there are tools in place so that the individuals can be possibly caught at a later time, sometimes we all lose and you shouldn't be using lethal methods just so you can ensure victory. If I'm running from the cops I'm running for my life. I might personally only face a few hours in jail but my character could face weeks to years. 

 

We aren't RPing in Brazil where the police gun down criminals in the streets. One of the challenges you face as a LEO character is that you have rules and laws you have to follow, this is off set by the fact that you have access to a massive arsenal of tools you can use to catch me. My criminal doesn't follow laws because he doesn't have too and therefor he can get away with much more however this is offset by the fact that I can be incarcerated for my crimes, potentially for life.

 

These are the checks and balances that keep Illegal and legal RP balanced.

 

Tennessee versus Garner. Tennessee versus Garner. Tennessee versus Garner.

 

On 12/4/2019 at 3:06 AM, Henning said:

How incredible sad it is that this has become one of the two standard responses we as a community receive.

 

"Umm no according to [INSERT RANDOM COURT CASE] We can do that"

 

"[INSERT 3 BADRP INCIDENTS FROM CHAMBERLAIN] Illegal RP is horrible, why don't you guys start focusing on fixing your own RP and stop nitpicking ours"

 

 

If Law enforcement RP is bad, it effects everyone else on the server. There is no escaping it, You can't just avoid the LSPD like you'd avoid a bad faction or group of players. I am FORCED to RP with you whether I like it or not. So when I get quick, play to win RP from a cop? It can ruin my entire session, hell it can ruin my entire character. Its not that people don't want to be caught by the LSPD, its that they know that if they are caught they are probably going to receive a pretty flat or unmemorable experience. If your a gang member most likely your gang tats or other identifying features that would be of interest to the LSPD gets ignored. Don't get me wrong there are some amazing LEO characters on this server but it feels as if they are few and far between. There are also LEO characters that are genuinely interesting and who would be amazing if they hadn't been using IC Trauma as a way to mask OOC resentment towards illegal RP due to poor experiences with one segment of the population.

 

Sadly I think I might be done responding to this thread and sharing my feedback. Which I'm sure to some of you might seem like a good thing. But its disappointing because I have a lot of admiration for what many of you are trying to do and only try to give you a fair POV from the other side. My character is a vile, dangerous person. I want PD to win, I want them to catch me slipping up and shut down my entire faction. Frankly I don't know a single leader of an illegal faction who wouldn't love to see their faction dismantled in a realistic fashion. But that requires you to play fairly and play realistically and I don't ever see that happening if so many of you hold this "Us VS Them" mentality.

 

 

 

Well. That's because most questions that aren't specifically about roleplay are posed around certain actions the LSPD does... most of which are based off of US supreme court case law which in turn makes quoting x or y case law a very reasonable argument in such a discussion.

 

I don't think a large part or even a majority of my faction feels any type of OOC ''us versus them'' mentality, and when they do, it is usually equally in response to bad experiences that have happened to them. It's hard to put a solution to the above in words, other then that me, my command team, my supervisors and all my senior members do our best to prevent this from happening. Sometimes people just find themselves in a shitty situation and commit something shitty. Probably happens to me as much with criminal players as it happens to you with police roleplayers. It happens. We do our best to avoid it or combat it, but it's impossible to order people not to have a bad day or not to rush something sometimes. We take action against it if and when we can, but it's an unfortunate reality.

 

On 12/4/2019 at 10:58 PM, Max3 said:

One thing is all the meaningless car chases. 

 

Most areas in America have anti chase rules; do not chase unless it is a violent crime. No officer would risk everyone’s life for $180.64 that he won’t ever get to touch.

What do you define as meaningless? Yes. Our pursuit policy is by no means as strict as the LAPD's. It isn't on purpose. But it's not like it's non existent either.

 

10 hours ago, Homie said:

This is coming from a new player in the server, in my 2 weeks of GTA:W I've had a few interactions with the PD, they all have been awful, extremely awful.

I don't wanna say that the whole faction needs to be checked but I sadly haven't managed to come across a cop that roleplayed properly.

I've seen cops riding on 200-300K cars while off-duty. How? Why?

The play-to-win mentality is strong, it's hard to call GTA:W a heavy roleplay server when those things happen. 

 

Please, be more strict with who you invite to your faction, I've came across 5-6 cops that don't even finish their sentences with a dot.

If you're in a situation where you rely on hiding from them, you're fucked. They have X-Ray vision. Not even 10 minutes ago a cop claimed to see my shadow in a completely dark alley where they had no clue I was gonna be in. 

 

Again, I don't really like to say that all of them are like that, but in 2 weeks that's all I've came across. Maybe I have bad luck? OK. 

Even if it is, these type of things should NEVER happen on a server that claims to be heavy on roleplay. 

I'm not over reacting, it freaks me out that civilians who're so called "mallrats" are more capable to roleplay properly than half of the PD. 

 

Please read the Original Post. Also, my faction has over a 100+ members. Please don't generalize all of them.

 

10 hours ago, El Ghetto Man said:

Back in my Ghetto BoyZ faction we had alot of excellent interactions with the LSPD, although unfortunately a minority of them would often play to win. I say a minority, because a considerable amount of the roleplayers in LSPD are very skilled RPers and actually know what the're doing.

 

I'm not sure how shit is now, but I hope that when I return to the server I see more activity from the LSPD's gang divison, if they have one.

 

It'd also be dope to see more screenshots of what gang officers & also regular police officers do day to day. Could have gang unit officers visiting gang members, documenting suspected gang members, talking to youngsters in rundown neighborhoods to try and discourage them from banging, shit like that would be lit as fuck. If stuff like what I've mentioned is already happening, then that's awesome & I hope to see it ingame.

 

I'm glad to hear that, dude. We recently went through a major reform in the Detective Bureau which included a somewhat sizeable reduction in manpower. We are currently hard in the process of building these things back up with help from the community's illegal factions.

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pateuvasiliu    24
2 hours ago, Big_Smokes said:

What do you define as meaningless? Yes. Our pursuit policy is by no means as strict as the LAPD's. It isn't on purpose.

Another thing that should be added to this, and why I personally dislike when people want us to be a 1:1 representation of LAPD is that LA and Los Santos are overwhelmingly different places.

 

Los Angeles' crime rate and number of illegally obtained weapons to population ratio is ASTRONOMICALLY lower than Los Santos'. On our lovely server if you arrest someone you have like >20% chance of finding drugs or a weapon on them. In real life it's probably lower than 0.1%.

Which means that every evader is somewhat likely to have drugs or a weapon on him. Thus, of course it makes sense to have more aggressive pursuit protocols, because pretty much every person that evades is a danger. And not the 'doesn't stop at red lights' danger, the one with a stolen gun in his pants.

Edited by pateuvasiliu

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