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The Police Department & You

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Keane    153
16 minutes ago, ashlyii said:

Same as with the LTL shotgun - we're told to only use it when the motorbike is going at a slow speed that wouldn't cause a significant accident. 

 

17 minutes ago, ashlyii said:

a more active approach to bikers by ramming them with a vehicle, obviously not at excessive speeds (much like the way London cops now authorize) and have been told it won't happen.

Tactics like these should never happen, in my opinion. Police should be coming out on top in most situations but they should be using tactics that are actually used by American police. Bringing police tactics from Britain or anywhere else outside of the US is just going to bring the quality of the faction down.

I don't see why someone on a motorcycle should be rammed off unless it's being used as a form of lethal force where the lethal force is justified. An example someone fleeing from the scene of a shooting on a motorcycle. At that point, lethal force is justified and legal. I could say the same for some of the PITs being performed at high speeds. 

Beanbag usage is a whole other issue. In my opinion they are used way too much. The only way I've seen beanbags used by American police is for situations where there is someone armed with a knife or other dangerous object. The LAPD use of force videos they have been releasing is a great place to see how they are used in a US law enforcement environment. I have yet to see any examples of beanbag shotguns being used on motorcycle riders or people running away on foot but feel free to give me examples of this if I'm wrong. 

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Sebz    1

I appreciate the replies. To reiterate, my suggestion is mostly aimed at having the LSPD reevaluate their stance on lethal force and to perhaps have them try tracking mode with helicopters more. If and when I flee on my modified sports bike, I expect to lose the police, however, I do it knowing very well that I may crash and be injured or otherwise be outsmarted by the police. Tracking mode is proven successful versus motorbikes and there are real life videos of this on youtube where bikers thought they were away but were really being viewed parking their bikes on forward-looking infrared (FLIR).

 

Ramming someone off of a bike or trying to cause them to wreck is simply dangerous and puts officers and the community at risk. There's a point when you as a department must decide the terminate a pursuit fully or utilize alternative methods (tracking mode, warrants) to come out on top. At the end of the day, sometimes you lose as an LEO and you should be prepared for this as well. I know this because I have been involved with LSPD roleplay for ~6 years on LS-RP. When I started, I never wanted to lose. Having a suspect get away would boil my blood. After years of roleplaying and multiple eras of police chiefs, I came to enjoy losing and finding someone later when they weren't expecting it.

 

TL:DR - Reevaluate policies, utilize tracking mode more and prepare to accept failure.

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ashlyii    45
8 minutes ago, Keane said:

 

Tactics like these should never happen, in my opinion. Police should be coming out on top in most situations but they should be using tactics that are actually used by American police. Bringing police tactics from Britain or anywhere else outside of the US is just going to bring the quality of the faction down.

I don't see why someone on a motorcycle should be rammed off unless it's being used as a form of lethal force where the lethal force is justified. An example someone fleeing from the scene of a shooting on a motorcycle. At that point, lethal force is justified and legal. I could say the same for some of the PITs being performed at high speeds. 

Beanbag usage is a whole other issue. In my opinion they are used way too much. The only way I've seen beanbags used by American police is for situations where there is someone armed with a knife or other dangerous object. The LAPD use of force videos they have been releasing is a great place to see how they are used in a US law enforcement environment. I have yet to see any examples of beanbag shotguns being used on motorcycle riders or people running away on foot but feel free to give me examples of this if I'm wrong. 

 

Oh no, I don't disagree. This was my initial reaction after being involved in bike chases, it was frustrating but I fully agree that we shouldn't deploy British tactics on an American role-play server. Sorry that wasn't translated correctly in my original post.

 

I've personally never used the beanbag shotgun (as I role-play my character being quite small, her firing a shotgun would be quite comical). 

 

I also have grievances about the use of less-than-lethal tools. I would love to see a tackle feature in place as right now our only option to stop someone running is to deploy a taser/beanbag shotgun. My character is quite the pacifist and I find myself resorting to my taser a lot during foot-chases which I don't really like doing but am kinda forced into it as realistically, NO one will stop long enough for me to attempt to type a tackle /me.

 

I work in law enforcement in Britain, so this has been a new experience for me learning American systems - some I agree, some I disagree but that's just because of my own personal experiences for work, I don't let it define my American character. 

 

Honestly, I hope someone can come up with a unique tackle feature that would allow us to try a different approach away from the LTL's but right now, it's kind of all we have to deal with runners.

 

I actually have a perfect example on my streamable somewhere, where I have a UPR pointed at a person running - who runs within 5 feet of me and keeps going. So I had to sling it and resort to my taser - should the person had stopped at having a rifle pointed in his face? Probably. But 99% of players will just keep going until they're tased and it kinda sucks. I'd much rather a tackle feature that would allow us to jump into a /me struggle on the ground than an easy point and shoot gallery!

Edited by ashlyii

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28 minutes ago, Ronnie two poles said:

Why would any character move countries around the World to join their law enforcement department?

This might be hard to understand, but could it be possible that they didn't move with the specific intent of becoming police officers? And then things happen once they're here that maybe pique their interest? Nah, probably not.

 

28 minutes ago, Ronnie two poles said:

People need to learn how to role play their character and not their self.

Agreed. 100%. But that has little to do with their character's nationality. If they're self inserting, that's a problem that this thread is not going to fix. Because look at the demographics of players on this server from an IC and an OOC perspective. Playercount at different times of the day paint a picture of a very active EUTZ, and mediocre at best active US TZ. The number of characters not born in not only this city but not even the country is astronomically higher than it should be. And I understand, RP what you know, but it's also your job as a character from another country to give a good reason why you're actually here and trying to become a member of the police department or the fire department. I'm not saying they can't imprint some of themselves into their character, everyone does that. But if you're playing you without consequences, which is what all this is, then that's once again a problem that this thread will not fix. But hey, we have PLM for that. So just start reporting them.
 

28 minutes ago, Ronnie two poles said:

I think there needs to be some sort of education upon character development and joining the LSPD server.   

Fixed that for you.
 

20 minutes ago, ashlyii said:

Honestly, I hope someone can come up with a unique tackle feature that would allow us to try a different approach away from the LTL's but right now, it's kind of all we have to deal with runners.

If you screw around in the US, you're just gonna get tazed and cuffed up. Or shot and killed.
 

31 minutes ago, ashlyii said:

I actually have a perfect example on my streamable somewhere, where I have a UPR pointed at a person running - who runs within 5 feet of me and keeps going. So I had to sling it and resort to my taser - should the person had stopped at having a rifle pointed in his face?

I don't know how it works in European countries. I know a lot of the police over there aren't exactly armed. But over here if you charge a cop, and he's got a handgun, a shotgun, a rifle, a slingshot, it doesn't matter. You're gonna get shot with it. Something a lot of people who game don't consider because, in the majority of games, it really doesn't apply, weapon length. You try to get up on a cop so they can't use their weapon on you? You're about to get blasted with it. And the cop is gonna get away with it, whether you were trying to get the gun from them or not. They don't take chances on letting their weapons get taken.

If you're interested in expanding PD/SD options for stuff like that, I'd push for an OC spray item and script before a tackling one. As law enforcement, you've probably been pepper sprayed before so you know how effective it really can be.

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Westen    131
14 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

If you're interested in expanding PD/SD options for stuff like that, I'd push for an OC spray item and script before a tackling one. As law enforcement, you've probably been pepper sprayed before so you know how effective it really can be.

I suggested this ages ago. It was denied because it'd be pure RP and not actually an item (akin to the taser) and people barely RP the taser as is.

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CloutToken    24

I suggested a tackling system months ago in order to cut down on the amount of spam tasing and bean bag shotguns being used however no one seems to have actually looked into this.

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CloutToken    24
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
24 minutes ago, pateuvasiliu said:

The non lethals are used because we have no script to tackle people. Bikes can't be spiked, their tires can't be shot, you literally have no way of stopping a Dinka Akuma outside of praying the driver falls by crashing into something. As for the Taser, people always keep running even with a gun in their face, so failing a script that lets me rugby tackle someone I have no other option but to use Taser/rubber shotgun.

Tracking mode is always an option for situations like these however it's not used by the department.

Either way, I would rather lose and be realistic about it than forcing a win by using questionable tactics. It shouldn't matter if you catch suspects or not, it should matter if you roleplayed properly.

Edited by CloutToken

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Henning    66
24 minutes ago, pateuvasiliu said:

 

So it's the cops' responsibility to protect your life, but you can risk it nilly willy? That's not how it works.

Yes. 

 

A dead criminal is a dead case, Your job as a police officer is to catch the bad guys not kill them. If you can't catch them, there are tools in place so that the individuals can be possibly caught at a later time, sometimes we all lose and you shouldn't be using lethal methods just so you can ensure victory. If I'm running from the cops I'm running for my life. I might personally only face a few hours in jail but my character could face weeks to years. 

 

We aren't RPing in Brazil where the police gun down criminals in the streets. One of the challenges you face as a LEO character is that you have rules and laws you have to follow, this is off set by the fact that you have access to a massive arsenal of tools you can use to catch me. My criminal doesn't follow laws because he doesn't have too and therefor he can get away with much more however this is offset by the fact that I can be incarcerated for my crimes, potentially for life.

 

These are the checks and balances that keep Illegal and legal RP balanced.

Edited by Henning

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Henning    66
6 minutes ago, Roach said:

 

How incredible sad it is that this has become one of the two standard responses we as a community receive.

 

"Umm no according to [INSERT RANDOM COURT CASE] We can do that"

 

"[INSERT 3 BADRP INCIDENTS FROM CHAMBERLAIN] Illegal RP is horrible, why don't you guys start focusing on fixing your own RP and stop nitpicking ours"

 

 

If Law enforcement RP is bad, it effects everyone else on the server. There is no escaping it, You can't just avoid the LSPD like you'd avoid a bad faction or group of players. I am FORCED to RP with you whether I like it or not. So when I get quick, play to win RP from a cop? It can ruin my entire session, hell it can ruin my entire character. Its not that people don't want to be caught by the LSPD, its that they know that if they are caught they are probably going to receive a pretty flat or unmemorable experience. If your a gang member most likely your gang tats or other identifying features that would be of interest to the LSPD gets ignored. Don't get me wrong there are some amazing LEO characters on this server but it feels as if they are few and far between. There are also LEO characters that are genuinely interesting and who would be amazing if they hadn't been using IC Trauma as a way to mask OOC resentment towards illegal RP due to poor experiences with one segment of the population.

 

Sadly I think I might be done responding to this thread and sharing my feedback. Which I'm sure to some of you might seem like a good thing. But its disappointing because I have a lot of admiration for what many of you are trying to do and only try to give you a fair POV from the other side. My character is a vile, dangerous person. I want PD to win, I want them to catch me slipping up and shut down my entire faction. Frankly I don't know a single leader of an illegal faction who wouldn't love to see their faction dismantled in a realistic fashion. But that requires you to play fairly and play realistically and I don't ever see that happening if so many of you hold this "Us VS Them" mentality.

 

 

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