The Police Department & You

[Paranoid Cobra]

Hello. I have had a weird interaction or situation occur.. To set the scene.

 

I personally have two characters that I keep for specific types of role play.

 

Character A is focused around selling cars and makes a legal living.

Character B is focused around bodyguarding private individuals and has several illegal jobs.

 

I received a forum report on Character B that is now being handled while having applied for a PF license on Character A.

 

This forum report caused Character A PF license to be put on hold, pending the report outcome.

 

What I want to know is:

- How does an OOC forum report influence a different character's IC application? What criteria influences the LSPD OOC decision making and how far does this go in terms of punishment(s)? Revoked license, suspended from applying for one, ... ?

 

- How does stopping a player from getting a legal license in an OOC way prevent said person from accessing weapons through the black market?

 

Thank you! Much love! 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Paranoid Cobra
Typo's, making things easier to understand.

[Rohan.]

10 hours ago, Paranoid Cobra said:

Hello. I have had a weird interaction or situation occur.. To set the scene.

 

I personally have two characters that I keep for specific types of role play.

 

Character A is focused around selling cars and makes a legal living.

Character B is focused around bodyguarding private individuals and has several illegal jobs.

 

I received a forum report on Character B that is now being handled while having applied for a PF license on Character A.

 

This forum report caused Character A PF license to be put on hold, pending the report outcome.

 

What I want to know is:

- How does an OOC forum report influence a different character's IC application? What criteria influences the LSPD OOC decision making and how far does this go in terms of punishment(s)? Revoked license, suspended from applying for one, ... ?

 

- How does stopping a player from getting a legal license in an OOC way prevent said person from accessing weapons through the black market?

 

Thank you! Much love! 

I dont think the forum report has to do with anything IC. While issuing license, admin records are checked (Doesn't matter if you have broken a rule on Character A, B or C). If you fail the admin record check, your application will be denied for this OOC reason. PD wouldn't want rule breakers to run around with PF guns. Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you a rule breaker but unless the complainant is resolved in your favor, it makes total sense to keep the license application on hold.

[Paranoid Cobra]

19 minutes ago, Rohan. said:

I dont think the forum report has to do with anything IC. While issuing license, admin records are checked (Doesn't matter if you have broken a rule on Character A, B or C). If you fail the admin record check, your application will be denied for this OOC reason. PD wouldn't want rule breakers to run around with PF guns. Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you a rule breaker but unless the complainant is resolved in your favor, it makes total sense to keep the license application on hold.

I totally understand their decision and point of view, and respect that. It makes sense as well. It's just very easy, this day and age, to get a gun without a license.

[CouthInk4]

12 hours ago, Paranoid Cobra said:

Hello. I have had a weird interaction or situation occur.. To set the scene.

 

I personally have two characters that I keep for specific types of role play.

 

Character A is focused around selling cars and makes a legal living.

Character B is focused around bodyguarding private individuals and has several illegal jobs.

 

I received a forum report on Character B that is now being handled while having applied for a PF license on Character A.

 

This forum report caused Character A PF license to be put on hold, pending the report outcome.

 

What I want to know is:

- How does an OOC forum report influence a different character's IC application? What criteria influences the LSPD OOC decision making and how far does this go in terms of punishment(s)? Revoked license, suspended from applying for one, ... ?

 

- How does stopping a player from getting a legal license in an OOC way prevent said person from accessing weapons through the black market?

 

Thank you! Much love! 

Considering I'm a Supervisor in the Firearms Licensing Division (specifically handling PF applications) I can easily answer this for you.

Your B character has been involved in illegal RP, while using a PF license (this has been witnessed in the forum report) - This violates the OOC agreement you made when submitting an application for your A character. Regardless if you made an IC application, OOC factors are taken into consideration on the applications you make as this avoids people abusing the license.

Although ICly it is considered a right to own a firearm, OOCly it's considered a privilege so if you're caught not following the criteria then you'll simply not be allowed to have one. Whether you purchase a firearm illegally then that's up to you as we have no control over that, I just know in the past we've had countless people apply for PF licenses to just abuse them through illegal RP therefore we're not taking measures to ensure the correct people are the ones with PF licenses.

 

As it stands your application is on hold pending the outcome of your report, We place applications on hold for further investigation to ensure no rule-breaking is involved and as your name has popped up a couple of times it has obviously warranted a look into your RP standard.
 

You're more than welcomes to PM me on the LSPD forums and we can discuss if further (Name is Daniel Moretta) or via discord CouthInk4#6624 

[Shaderz]

I have a question.

 

Are there any instances where it is acceptable for a member of the police to breach corruption rules if their lives are at imminent risk and the situation at hand inevitably leads to a character-kill? 

 

Example:

• A police detective is working on a case against a local gang for gun trafficking. The gang knows this and decides to kidnap said detective in order to collect confidential information from him.
• The gang takes that detective to a secluded place and threatens to kill him if he doesn't disclose such information. They literally have guns aimed at him, using them to instill fear on the detective and consequently make him talk. 
• The detective in question does not have corruption permission.

The scenario I made up above puts the detective in a tough and highly unfair position. He either carries on like any normal-minded human being would do and reveals confidential information from a case file so he doesn't die, but he risks getting admin-punished for breaching corruption rules, or he refuses to tell the criminals such information, but risks facing a character-kill for clearly disregarding his own life due to out-of-character restrictions set in place.

 

Would the situation above be an acceptable one for breaking corruption rules or are they not allowed to break them under any and all in-character and out-of-character circumstances?

Edited July 31, 2020 by Shaderz

[Paranoid Cobra]

Just now, Shaderz said:

I have a question.

 

Are there any instances where it is acceptable for a member of the police to breach corruption rules if their lives are at imminent risk and the situation at hand inevitably leads to a character-kill? 

 

Example:

• A police detective is working on a case against a local gang for gun trafficking. The gang knows this and decides to kidnap said detective in order to collect confidential information from him.
• The gang takes that detective to a secluded place and threatens to kill him if he doesn't disclose such information. They literally have guns aimed at him, using them to instill fear on the detective and consequently make him talk. 
• The detective in question does not have corruption permission.

The scenario I made up above puts the detective in a tough and highly unfair position. He either carries on like any normal-minded human being would do and reveals confidential information from a case file so he doesn't die, but he risks getting admin-punished for breaching corruption rules, or he refuses to tell the criminals such information, but risks facing a character-kill for clearly disregarding his own life due to out-of-character restrictions set in place.

 

Would the situation above be an acceptable one for breaking corruption rules or are they not allowed to break them under any and all in-character and out-of-character circumstances?

I feel it would be acceptable for the detective to reach out to contacts he has in the underworld and order the hit instead of doing it himself. That'd be a realistic way of handling it without directly compromising your character's sense of self. Pay to get problem solved, hit squad does their thing, problem solved.

 

Should you go at it yourself (which is also realistic, if a man's pushed too far, he's pushed too far, end of) I'd at least try and get a gun without a serial and methodically plan things out. Scout 'em out while on duty, then head off duty and do the deed, then go investigate the murder yourself to clean up evidence where you may have left it.

 

That's how I'd do it if I was a detective. Not sure about your OOC policy on corruption and how far it can go. If you guy doesn't do the deed, he shouldn't be held accountable for breach of corruption rules. He's only suggested a person to do it for money.

[Ylva]

40 minutes ago, Shaderz said:

I have a question.

 

Are there any instances where it is acceptable for a member of the police to breach corruption rules if their lives are at imminent risk and the situation at hand inevitably leads to a character-kill? 

 

Example:

• A police detective is working on a case against a local gang for gun trafficking. The gang knows this and decides to kidnap said detective in order to collect confidential information from him.
• The gang takes that detective to a secluded place and threatens to kill him if he doesn't disclose such information. They literally have guns aimed at him, using them to instill fear on the detective and consequently make him talk. 
• The detective in question does not have corruption permission.

The scenario I made up above puts the detective in a tough and highly unfair position. He either carries on like any normal-minded human being would do and reveals confidential information from a case file so he doesn't die, but he risks getting admin-punished for breaching corruption rules, or he refuses to tell the criminals such information, but risks facing a character-kill for clearly disregarding his own life due to out-of-character restrictions set in place.

 

Would the situation above be an acceptable one for breaking corruption rules or are they not allowed to break them under any and all in-character and out-of-character circumstances?

 

No member of the LSPD can leak anything ICly or OOCly under any circumstances, permission cannot be gained either from the leaders to permit it because they simply do not allow it. Detectives are even more stricly under this ruleset and much like the rest of the PD, corruption permissions do not give you the right to leak any information, be it ICly or OOCly at any rank.

 

It's a rather slippery slope, because it's a fight against the fear of dying versus the OOC ruleset you're faced with but I'm sure there'll be some discussions about it.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Ylva

[TranXify]

17 hours ago, Shaderz said:

I have a question.

 

Are there any instances where it is acceptable for a member of the police to breach corruption rules if their lives are at imminent risk and the situation at hand inevitably leads to a character-kill? 

 

Example:

• A police detective is working on a case against a local gang for gun trafficking. The gang knows this and decides to kidnap said detective in order to collect confidential information from him.
• The gang takes that detective to a secluded place and threatens to kill him if he doesn't disclose such information. They literally have guns aimed at him, using them to instill fear on the detective and consequently make him talk. 
• The detective in question does not have corruption permission.

The scenario I made up above puts the detective in a tough and highly unfair position. He either carries on like any normal-minded human being would do and reveals confidential information from a case file so he doesn't die, but he risks getting admin-punished for breaching corruption rules, or he refuses to tell the criminals such information, but risks facing a character-kill for clearly disregarding his own life due to out-of-character restrictions set in place.

 

Would the situation above be an acceptable one for breaking corruption rules or are they not allowed to break them under any and all in-character and out-of-character circumstances?

I'll answer the first general question you've asked first:
 

"Are there any instances where it is acceptable for a member of the police to breach corruption rules if their lives are at imminent risk and the situation at hand inevitably leads to a character-kill? "

 

The answer is that it... depends. PD Staff always stated to their members that if roleplay is incredibly dynamic and it makes sense for a PD member (based on very good and realistic development) to break one of the OOC corruption rules, then they must inform the Chief of Police right after the situation of exactly what happened. The Chief of Police will then review the situation that occurred, and if the roleplay is deemed to be of good enough quality and development, then the person is not punished. If the roleplay was not realistic enough, then the person risks being removed from the faction. In most case scenarios, officers will have enough time to approach the Chief of Police and ask for corruption permission anyway.

 

To answer your specific scenario, though, about the detective who got kidnapped and is being coerced to release case file information. There are two factors that I am considering:

 

1) Kidnapping a police Detective would lead to your criminal organization or gang to being chased to the end of the Earth. The federal police would probably get involved, and your local police will focus its resources on the group. It would most definitely result in them being forced to change their method of operation and might risk multiple of their members being locked up or their entire organization burning to the ground. Not many people, IRL, are willing to take such a risk. It is difficult for us (the LSPD) to put such pressure on criminal groups in game because we are not as big as any actual police department, and we don't have the FBI to jump in if need be.

 

2) The current rules do not balance the risk that the criminals are taking when they kidnap the detective and coerce him to speak up, and the amount of time it takes to build those case files. Case files on criminal groups or gangs take literal months to years of people's time. No one wants all that time to be wasted.

 

With both of these points taken into consideration, I would personally never give any PD member the permission to leak case file information.

Edited August 1, 2020 by TranXify

[CuttingRoomFloor]

3 hours ago, TranXify said:

I'll answer the first general question you've asked first:
 

"Are there any instances where it is acceptable for a member of the police to breach corruption rules if their lives are at imminent risk and the situation at hand inevitably leads to a character-kill? "

 

The answer is that it... depends. PD Staff always stated to their members that if roleplay is incredibly dynamic and it makes sense for a PD member (based on very good and realistic development) to break one of the OOC corruption rules, then they must inform the Chief of Police right after the situation of exactly what happened. The Chief of Police will then review the situation that occurred, and if the roleplay is deemed to be of good enough quality and development, then the person is not punished. If the roleplay was not realistic enough, then the person risks being removed from the faction. In most case scenarios, officers will have enough time to approach the Chief of Police and ask for corruption permission anyway.

 

To answer your specific scenario, though, about the detective who got kidnapped and is being coerced to release case file information. There are two factors that I am considering:

 

1) Kidnapping a police Detective would lead to your criminal organization or gang to being chased to the end of the Earth. The federal police would probably get involved, and your local police will focus its resources on the group. It would most definitely result in them being forced to change their method of operation and might risk multiple of their members being locked up or their entire organization burning to the ground. Not many people, IRL, are willing to take such a risk. It is difficult for us (the LSPD) to put such pressure on criminal groups in game because we are not as big as any actual police department, and we don't have the FBI to jump in if need be.

 

2) The current rules do not balance the risk that the criminals are taking when they kidnap the detective and coerce him to speak up, and the amount of time it takes to build those case files. Case files on criminal groups or gangs take literal months to years of people's time. No one wants all that time to be wasted.

 

With both of these points taken into consideration, I would personally never give any PD member the permission to leak case file information.

Being forced to spill details of a case file after being kidnapped under the threat of death doesn't fall under 'corruption rules' at all. It's not corruption in any sense of the word.

Corruption requires intent. Unless the PD member arranged OOCly to be kidnapped so he can leak the information - which would be MG anyway - if an OCG takes the as you said incredibly drastic measure of kidnapping a detective to force him to reveal things they know he definitely knows of, and the detective spills the beans, there ain't shit the PD can do about it or they'll be metagaming by manipulating a totally IC situation through OOC means/threats.

 

There is no such thing as hiding behind "OOC permission" to divulge IC information being obtained through forceable IC means. That's metagame.

If the cop voluntarily offered it, that's intentful corruption and they can be punished by your intrafaction regulations.

 

"The current rules do not balance the risk that the criminals are taking when they kidnap the detective and coerce him to speak up, and the amount of time it takes to build those case files. Case files on criminal groups or gangs take literal months to years of people's time. No one wants all that time to be wasted."

 

The criminals can get CKed as a result. By your own admission, they are taking a huge risk. If pulled off properly, there wouldn't be traces of the detective for you to hunt them down. Their entire faction, which took "literal months to years of people's time" to develop, could be shut down. It is clearly proportional and there is hypocrisy in saying that it's not. You might not want your case file to be found out, but we don't want our organisation to be RICO'd.

[Hugh-Gi-Oh]

The 'Contact Us' form on the LSPD forums seems to be broken. Every time I send a message to the administration via it, it loads for a very long time and ultimately ends with this:

 

I'm talking about this section: https://lspd.gta.world/memberlist.php?mode=contactadmin in the bottom right corner of the page, on 'contact us'.

 

That aside, it's really kinda complicated to get in touch with LSPD about anything but emergency calls. 991 gets no response a lot of the time, Mission Row and Vespucci PD are often empty. Where do I go if I wanna talk to the police about something not related to an emergency at all?