The Police Department & You

[cryybabyycryy]

35 minutes ago, Exploits said:

I know for civilians there's no recourse, and that's why I mentioned "it's not illegal" (also, again, this is nitpicky anyway). I'd just like to see it encouraged a bit more within the faction itself, because it's certainly not all civilians parking around the building and I know we can organize it better and make MRS look less like an open nightclub.

Not saying its not PD members, cause a majority is... But there is also a large apartment complex and a few businesses right across the street. 

[Morgan]

1 hour ago, Exploits said:

I know for civilians there's no recourse, and that's why I mentioned "it's not illegal" (also, again, this is nitpicky anyway). I'd just like to see it encouraged a bit more within the faction itself, because it's certainly not all civilians parking around the building and I know we can organize it better and make MRS look less like an open nightclub.

I don't know why it bothers you. From my perspective, the LSPD HQ feels more alive with cars parked outside, and I always appreciate cars being parked everywhere, it always makes the server feel more alive, and also hint to new players which areas are more populated. However, cars being parked in the middle of the street is another story, but I'm getting off-topic.

[Exploits]

19 minutes ago, Morgan said:

I don't know why it bothers you. From my perspective, the LSPD HQ feels more alive with cars parked outside, and I always appreciate cars being parked everywhere, it always makes the server feel more alive, and also hint to new players which areas are more populated.

It does to a degree. I have a habit of coming across as overly critical and this response probably won't be an exception, but I'll still expound on why it tends to get under my skin with MRS.

 

Roadside parking in real-life is usually a last resort. People almost unanimously prefer parking lots away from the street, especially in areas with some form of security, be it cameras, an actual guard, or just a gate. I personally did the same when I had a car: doubly so when I woke up one morning and somebody had sideswiped my car and left without a note. But while the risk of your vehicle getting damaged is still very real, its lasting effects are rather null in our game world. You should realistically care that your vehicle is exposed to the public and traffic, but unless it's full-on stolen, there's no consequence to speak of.

Roadside parking is also limited for time. Most cities institute a limit of anywhere from fifteen minutes to two hours for roadside parking before you have to move. We could do something like that on the server, but that's not really what I'm looking to see done. Interrupting role-play to move your vehicle, even if you are role-playing it, isn't especially exciting and doesn't really promote much interaction. Mostly it would just be frustrating. As well, following that logic of extreme realism, actual parking lots also cost money to stay parked in, and that, too, would just be frustrating.

 

The reason roadside parking is so popular on the server in almost all cases is convenience. You can park as close as possible to where you're going and it's the same as parking far away as far as laws are concerned. I take exception with the PD since many of our members are on-duty for several hours, and some spawn and log-off right at the station. The thirty seconds or one minute you would spend parking at one of the aforementioned lots in this thread isn't really going to impact you in any significant way, and it frees up the area for civilians who do come in and out of the area more frequently than we do. Plus it's just nicer to see a parking lot utilized than the side of the road: in my opinion, at least.

 

I'm not really asking to see reprimand or anything for it, just a gentle push to do it more often. If we're looking to set an example for role-play and realism, then this is one of those small things where appearances show our resolve and substance to that end.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Exploits

[Morgan]

Just now, Exploits said:

It does to a degree. I have a habit of coming across as overly critical and this response probably won't be an exception, but I'll still expound on why it tends to get under my skin with MRS.

 

Roadside parking in real-life is usually a last resort. People almost unanimously prefer parking lots away from the street, especially in areas with some form of security, be it cameras, an actual guard, or just a gate. I personally did the same when I had a car: doubly so when I woke up one morning and somebody had hit my car and left without a note.

Roadside parking is also limited for time. Most cities institute a limit of anywhere from fifteen minutes to two hours for roadside parking before you have to move. We could do something like that on the server, but that's not really what I'm looking to see done. Interrupting role-play to move your vehicle, even if you are role-playing it, isn't especially exciting and doesn't really promote much interaction. Mostly it would just be frustrating. As well, following that logic of extreme realism, actual parking lots also cost money to stay parked in, and that, too, would just be frustrating.

 

The reason roadside parking is so popular on the server in almost all cases is convenience. You can park as close as possible to where you're going and it's the same as parking far away as far as laws are concerned. I take exception with the PD since many of our members are on for several hours, and some spawn and log-off right at the station. The thirty seconds or one minute you would spend parking at one of the aforementioned lots in this thread isn't really going to impact you in any significant way, and it frees up the area for civilians who do come in and out of the area more frequently than we do. Plus it's just nicer to see a parking lot utilized than the side of the road: in my opinion, at least.

 

I'm not really asking to see reprimand or anything for it, just a gentle push to do it more often.

 

The thing is, you compare real life with the game in terms of what's on the surface, but you fail to compare them on terms of the motivations behind people's actions IRL and in-game. If you look into it carefully, you'll see that both people IRL and in-game are motivated more or less by the same thing, but the results of that motivation is different because, well the game is different than real life. For example, as you said, people IRL chose to park in a secured parking lot because of safety, well parking in the middle of the street in-game is safer than parking in an abandoned parking lot with lots of cover and time for any thieve to steal your vehicle. It's the same motivation to have your vehicle secure, but with different results. Also, people IRL usually park in parking lots because parking spots on the side of the road are almost always used, but they are mostly free in-game. So, it's again the same motivation, instigating different results. You can't push people to park in parking lots when the side of the road is empty. I would even call that unrealistic because we'll have empty streets.

 

If your sole reason to use parking lots is realism, then stopped them from parking on the streets is also hindering realism, not to mention that you would also be making streets look empty and dead, another unrealistic aspect to it. And this is why 1:1 realism never works in a game. People usually consider the surface results but fail to acknowledge motivations behind them, and to properly promote realism, you have to consider both.

[Exploits]

16 minutes ago, Morgan said:

For example, as you said, people IRL chose to park in a secured parking lot because of safety, well parking in the middle of the street in-game is safer than parking in an abandoned parking lot with lots of cover and time for any thieve to steal your vehicle.

This is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. People don't go to parking lots because people don't go to parking lots. I can't think of a better place to change this feedback loop than around a police station. And again, your car absolutely does get smashed into in-game, way more than people realize. But that damage isn't permanent in any way, and you don't even see it unless you saw the accident yourself. This is nobody's fault, but it would be disingenuous to claim that it isn't something people are taking advantage of on some level.

 

16 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Also, people IRL usually park in parking lots because parking spots on the side of the road are almost always used, but they are mostly free in-game. [...] I would even call that unrealistic because we'll have empty streets.

This really isn't true. If you're driving into work for an eight hour day, you legitimately cannot park on the roadside due to the time limitations, and it would also be more expensive to re-up the parking meter than to pay the one-time all-day parking fee -- this tying back loosely to how our officers generally do lengthy patrols. And the notion that empty streets are unrealistic by default doesn't really hold either. Where I live, my street is a relatively popular roadside parking area since it's close to downtown but not highly trafficked. Even then, I only ever see it fill up on Sundays when parking is free and there are no time limits. And even then, you can't leave it overnight. Circumstances are exceptional nowadays, but the whole length of my street usually only sees about five cars parked for the thirty or so that it can handle during the week.

 

I feel that I have done my best to consider the aspects of what the reality in-game is in comparison to reality. I understand why roadside parking is substantially more popular in GTA than it is in real-life, and I don't fault anybody for it. But it doesn't have to be that way. And again, I'm not asking that we begin pushing civilians off all roadsides, or even around MRS. I'm simply asking -- literally only asking as well -- that we ask our officers to consider the parking lots first and foremost instead of filling up the street.

 

Maybe I'm taking this discussion too far? >.> I'd just love to see us emulate these details better without resorting to statements like "Others do it" or "Well this is how it is", for lack of a better set of terms.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Exploits

[Syrike]

Keep it on topic, this isn't an argument thread about where to park your car. And most cars are parked beside the station because there is less chance of them being broken into and stolen. That's what it comes down to at the end of the day.

[Oaks.]

I heard FTP and such as been changed since I last joined, I found that a lot of people were less inclined to answer your /r and such asking for one leaving you high and dry and was encouraged to join someones TS channel and straight up ask. Is this still very much the norm or as I've heard, been changed for the better?

[SpartanofSparta]

27 minutes ago, Oaks. said:

I heard FTP and such as been changed since I last joined, I found that a lot of people were less inclined to answer your /r and such asking for one leaving you high and dry and was encouraged to join someones TS channel and straight up ask. Is this still very much the norm or as I've heard, been changed for the better?

The FTP program was wildly revamped and is almost unrecognisable from the days of old. It was really a neglected area leftover from the start of the faction and honestly has developed into a resource that’s more focused on learning.

 

From when I’ve spoke to new officers who’ve had the chance to go through the old FTP system and now the new one, they’ve much preferred this one. I am also aware that the vast majority of FTOs prefer the new system too.

[Sabess]

13 minutes ago, SpartanofSparta said:

The FTP program was wildly revamped and is almost unrecognisable from the days of old. It was really a neglected area leftover from the start of the faction and honestly has developed into a resource that’s more focused on learning.

 

From when I’ve spoke to new officers who’ve had the chance to go through the old FTP system and now the new one, they’ve much preferred this one. I am also aware that the vast majority of FTOs prefer the new system too.

I've been through and taught the old program, and just recently completed the new one. Just confirming that it's completely different. I genuinely hated my first probationary period back in 2018-- I had to 'stick it out' to stay in the faction. This time, I genuinely enjoyed it and actually felt like I was taught much better. So yeah, good stuff.

[Trupiano]

I'm curious, and this question posed directly to @Big_Smokes. Where does the department draw the line between realistically executing police procedures and adapting to the realities of the server when it come to the way it handles situations IG? Do things like the cop to civilian/criminal ratio on the server Vs. the same ratio in real life come in to factor at all when making decisions about how the faction operates?