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The Police Department & You


Big_Smokes

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4 hours ago, Big_Smokes said:

What do you define as meaningless? Yes. Our pursuit policy is by no means as strict as the LAPD's. It isn't on purpose. But it's not like it's non existent either.

Don’t understand why you’re getting so defensive but it’s alright. Meaningless means pointless, a non violent crime. If someone ran a red and didn’t pull over there shouldn’t be a 15 car chase and helicopters flying all over. This honestly just seems like ooc boredom or desire to drive fast and chase people.

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1 minute ago, Max3 said:

Don’t understand why you’re getting so defensive but it’s alright. Meaningless means pointless, a non violent crime. If someone ran a red and didn’t pull over there shouldn’t be a 15 car chase and helicopters flying all over. This honestly just seems like ooc boredom or desire to drive fast and chase people.

Not getting defensive, I just didn't know what you define as pointless. I can however guarantee you that we don't in fact have pursuits with fifteen cars responding to them. We are definitely more relaxed on when pursuits are allowed, and this is intentional.

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4 hours ago, Bospy said:

Touching upon this point, there is often a "purist" argument many people make, but there's bigger fish to fry than trying to emulate things 1:1 in some cases. While I do think it is a good thing to mirror the department, I think rightfully Smokey is focusing on functionality first and foremost.

You were doing really good. You could've actually stopped typing right there and been dead on, thread ending point to drop down on the naysayers.
 

4 hours ago, Bospy said:

This is our focus in the LSSD - while we do aim to portray the LASD

But you didn't. You kept going, you said too much, and you ruined it.

Because what actually will more than likely happen, is there's going to be a division between PD and SD with the 1:1 emulators that think they're super elite RPers sitting back and going "wElL iN sD tHeY dO iT tHiS wAy. wE'Re NoT rPiNg CoRrEcTlY. tHiS dEpArTmEnT iSn'T rEaLiStIc." When in reality, that's not what we're here to do. 

1 for 1 realism does not equal good RP, and I don't know why people think it does. It goes back to the first part of that statement which was making a ton of sense "Functionality." We're an RP server with 180ish people on a good day. We're not an actual metropolitan city. We're a ghost town. Frankly speaking? I think it's a huge detriment to the server to try to go as a 1 for 1 law enforcement agency with PD or SD, whatever LEO you're after. You know why? We're not LA. We take some parts from LA. But by and large? We're not. It's Los Santos. Cut your own path and don't mirror something exactly the way you think it's real life counterpart does. Because at the end of the day? Nobody really cares how close to LASD or LAPD you are. Except for like 3 people and they're gonna be the ones who are going to make that division and sitting back causing problems and making new pages for threads like this.
 

 

4 hours ago, Bospy said:

That doesn't come from realism, mindset comes from teaching,

This is correct. However when you're harboring the intention to have an exact replica of something, you're basically telling the people who don't have the right mindset "Hey come over here, it's gonna be fine. We're realistic." How are you gonna change that when at the base of your organization, you're going for the exact thing that you said isn't a mindset changer?

 

4 hours ago, Bospy said:

If people have good intentions, then they will succeed.


This is incorrect. That's optimism splattered against the wall and sliding down. Meaning well doesn't mean you'll succeed. In fact meaning well only gets you so far. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Don't forget that.

 

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2 hours ago, pateuvasiliu said:

LA and Los Santos are overwhelmingly different places

?

 

Rockstar designed LS to be based on Los Angeles. Even all over the GTA wiki Los Angeles is mentioned countless times. I really do not understand your point. The only true differences are their size because of course, a Los Angeles replica up to scale would be a terrible idea for a game, and all the area name-changes (Hollywood > Vinewood, etc.)

 

2 hours ago, pateuvasiliu said:

In real life it's probably lower than 0.1%.

This is entirely incorrect as well. LA is a city with a lot of crime. The LAPD wouldn't be so restrictive of everything if guns/drugs were rare to come by. The LAPD could operate more like a British police force if guns were not an issue.

 

1 hour ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

1 for 1 realism does not equal good RP

I do not believe in 1:1 realism. I don't want to be doing paperwork for everything my character does - that is when realism is taken too far. But, when it comes to in-game aspects of roleplay, I believe portrayal of the IRL equivalent (LAPD) is necessary to come across like an American LEO agency. No, just having realism doesn't suddenly make everyone good RPers, you're right. But it encourages people to RP realistically and do their research, and in the long run, this will increase RP standards.

 

Although I am a big LAPD guy, I also agree with Smokes and Bospy. Mindsets can't be changed in a day, it takes work and patience, this is something I've learned after speaking to Roozles on Discord a few weeks ago. You won't get anywhere by arguing with people over Discord, I learned this the hard way.

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2 hours ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

1 for 1 realism does not equal good RP, and I don't know why people think it does. It goes back to the first part of that statement which was making a ton of sense "Functionality." We're an RP server with 180ish people on a good day. We're not an actual metropolitan city. We're a ghost town. Frankly speaking? I think it's a huge detriment to the server to try to go as a 1 for 1 law enforcement agency with PD or SD, whatever LEO you're after. You know why? We're not LA. We take some parts from LA. But by and large? We're not. It's Los Santos. Cut your own path and don't mirror something exactly the way you think it's real life counterpart does. Because at the end of the day? Nobody really cares how close to LASD or LAPD you are. Except for like 3 people and they're gonna be the ones who are going to make that division and sitting back causing problems and making new pages for threads like this.

 

I didn't say 1:1, that's the exact opposite of my argument. My argument is specifically against representing an agency 1:1, because it's impossible. Functionality is infinitely more important, which is something I'm trying to drill into people. You've assumed my position is the alternate from what it actually is.

 

In the context of my spiel about good intentions, I meant players who have a correct mindset - which is to say, they are not playing to win. If they're a shitty roleplayer, they can ultimately learn to be a good roleplayer. Obviously, they aren't going to advance, and if the roleplay is terrible, they likely won't be in the faction in the first place.

 

2 hours ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

This is correct. However when you're harboring the intention to have an exact replica of something, you're basically telling the people who don't have the right mindset "Hey come over here, it's gonna be fine. We're realistic." How are you gonna change that when at the base of your organization, you're going for the exact thing that you said isn't a mindset changer? 

I agree with you. Keep in mind, my organization doesn't even exist in-game yet, but when I talk about mindset I am talking about ensuring people are willing to compromise will illegal faction roleplayers and give them leeway, rather than playing to win or force a result.

 

 

"Mindset" when I use it isn't so nebulous as to refer to realism. It simply means that the players you get aren't shitheads trying to jam up criminal roleplayers. It is an IC goal to catch bad guys, but that's shouldn't be a player's OOC goal. A player's OOC goal should be portraying a cop and having fun.

 

Edited by Bospy
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The way you replied to my post makes me wonder if it's really worth it spending my time telling you what's happening.

 

I am telling you what is happening from a new player's perspective. I seriously couldn't give two fucks if your faction has over 100 members. This is a bad thing specially considering that the server at its peak has around 200-210 players. So you're telling me half of the playerbase is a member of the PD?

Once again, BE MORE STRICT WITH WHO YOU INVITE TO YOUR FACTION. 

I'm not saying that all of those players are bad ones, all I'm saying is that I AM HAVING TROUBLE FINDING A COP THAT CAN ROLEPLAY PROPERLY. 

In two weeks I've only came across police officers who play to win, not only that, I'll repeat because you probably think this is normal but I've seen a lot of cops riding 200-300K cars off-duty. 

 

The standards of your faction are extremely low for a server that claims to be heavy on roleplay. A revamp on your faction is the LEAST you could do. 

We're not talking about a street gang or a criminal organization where you chose if you want to roleplay with or not. We're talking about the PD, you don't chose to roleplay with the PD. If they want to force you they will and if the experience isn't good then it's not enjoyable. 

 

But yes, even though your response was extremely short and made me understand that you might not really give a fuck, I understand that a lot of these guys didn't come from a server that was REALLY heavy on roleplay, like a lot of us did. But still, that's not an excuse to make us have a bad time on the server.

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42 minutes ago, Matthew said:

I believe portrayal of the IRL equivalent (LAPD) is necessary to come across like an American LEO agency

Well, you're wrong. And if you need to understand why you're wrong, reference below.

4 hours ago, pateuvasiliu said:

LA and Los Santos are overwhelmingly different places.


Yes, you are correct. LA is an overwhelming influence for Los Santos. I'm not at all arguing that. But it's not the same. Not if you take a single second to look past the obvious points of reference that allude to it being an LA replica. Areas are obviously condensed, yes I realize that's for gameplay. It does not change the fact it's condensed and now we're talking about it being similar and not LA anymore.

And I don't have a problem if you're using LAPD or, stick with me on this because I'm sure this hasn't occurred to a lot of people, literally any other department in the United States that has a giant pool of resources, manpower and everything else, as a baseline. But you guys, and by that I mean the LAPD hardliners won't stand for that.
 

42 minutes ago, Matthew said:

No, just having realism doesn't suddenly make everyone good RPers, you're right.

Correct.

 

42 minutes ago, Matthew said:

But it encourages people to RP realistically and do their research, and in the long run, this will increase RP standards.

Ehhhh, not really. You know why? You can't force people to give a shit and do research about characters. If they don't, then they won't. And that's not increasing anything except the number of times people roll their eyes at a goofy character. Look at the number of regular characters who make the climb from fisherman to mechanic to club owner to millionaire in flashy car who lives a life of leisure. They're not playing characters. They haven't researched anything. You can't force that. It extends to any character on the server. Some people just aren't interested in that. And I'm not saying that's right, but it's apparent.

My point is, yes, it's okay to take certain things from a real life department. It however does not have to be specifically from LAPD and only LAPD. We have the freedom here to pick and choose whatever we want from any American department across all factions, PD, SD, FD, Gov, whatever. Because all of the real life orgs have that this server does not have, a steady and massive supply of numbers and resources to reinforce their actions. This server doesn't have a ton of cops, EMTs, etc, active at all times the way that real life counterparts would. It's okay to make concessions and use things from smaller departments and shape your department to deal with that accordingly.
 

 

42 minutes ago, Matthew said:

Mindsets can't be changed in a day, it takes work and patience

This is very true. But it goes back to what I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you mean well in what you're doing, it's the outcome that matters.

 

17 minutes ago, Bospy said:

 

I didn't say 1:1. My argument is specifically against representing an agency 1:1, because it's impossible. Functionality is infinitely more important.

There is one part about this that's correct. That's the last sentence.
 

6 hours ago, Bospy said:

This is our focus in the LSSD - while we do aim to portray the LASD ultimately I'd like to see our faction exist first. After we exist, it will be something we focus on more,

Portraying the LASD right? That's how it reads.
 

7 hours ago, Bospy said:

You can make your faction completely 1:1 with the real life department but ultimately none of that means shit if the people in the faction don't have the right mindset

 

7 hours ago, Bospy said:

Once mindset is worked out, realism can become a focus.

So based off those two statements, and I cut out the chaff, but what it looks like, regardless of what you meant to say, is "We're gonna maintain a certain mentality, get it in place, then focus on making a 1:1 realistic portrayal of LASD." Which means what? You're gonna be gangbangers with badges?

 

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5 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

Well, you're wrong. And if you need to understand why you're wrong, reference below.


Yes, you are correct. LA is an overwhelming influence for Los Santos. I'm not at all arguing that. But it's not the same. Not if you take a single second to look past the obvious points of reference that allude to it being an LA replica. Areas are obviously condensed, yes I realize that's for gameplay. It does not change the fact it's condensed and now we're talking about it being similar and not LA anymore.

And I don't have a problem if you're using LAPD or, stick with me on this because I'm sure this hasn't occurred to a lot of people, literally any other department in the United States that has a giant pool of resources, manpower and everything else, as a baseline. But you guys, and by that I mean the LAPD hardliners won't stand for that.
 

Correct.

 

Ehhhh, not really. You know why? You can't force people to give a shit and do research about characters. If they don't, then they won't. And that's not increasing anything except the number of times people roll their eyes at a goofy character. Look at the number of regular characters who make the climb from fisherman to mechanic to club owner to millionaire in flashy car who lives a life of leisure. They're not playing characters. They haven't researched anything. You can't force that. It extends to any character on the server. Some people just aren't interested in that. And I'm not saying that's right, but it's apparent.

My point is, yes, it's okay to take certain things from a real life department. It however does not have to be specifically from LAPD and only LAPD. We have the freedom here to pick and choose whatever we want from any American department across all factions, PD, SD, FD, Gov, whatever. Because all of the real life orgs have that this server does not have, a steady and massive supply of numbers and resources to reinforce their actions. This server doesn't have a ton of cops, EMTs, etc, active at all times the way that real life counterparts would. It's okay to make concessions and use things from smaller departments and shape your department to deal with that accordingly.
 

 

This is very true. But it goes back to what I said earlier, it doesn't matter if you mean well in what you're doing, it's the outcome that matters.

 

There is one part about this that's correct. That's the last sentence.
 

Portraying the LASD right? That's how it reads.
 

 

So based off those two statements, and I cut out the chaff, but what it looks like, regardless of what you meant to say, is "We're gonna maintain a certain mentality, get it in place, then focus on making a 1:1 realistic portrayal of LASD." Which means what? You're gonna be gangbangers with badges?

 

Los Santos is based on Los Angeles, and by the way, after 2020, the factions are gonna need to be required to base off their LA counterparts, just as gangs already have to. We're emulating Los Angeles as much as we can. There's nothing wrong with taking inspiration from an IRL department, I don't understand why you felt the need to retaliate like that to Bospy in your first post.

Edited by CloutToken
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Just now, CloutToken said:

There's nothing wrong with taking inspiration from an IRL department


Inspiration and exact copy are not the same thing. Someone brought up LAPD pursuit protocols. GTAW's should be far more aggressive, due to the astronomically higher chance of suspects having guns, as GTAW has an overwhelming amount of people with guns.

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