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The Police Department & You


Big_Smokes

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1 minute ago, JustAnM43 said:

More interaction with speeders and reckless drivers. While I understand that in the past there have been lots of people that drove past PD doing mach one hoping for pursuits and all that, not everyone's got the same plans. I can list off countless encounters where I've seen people run an intersection or do 20-25 over because they didn't see the police unit, only for the police unit to shrug it off because the person drove a sporty looking car.

 

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate PD roleplay. My character got carried away more than once with speeding. This wasn't to provoke anyone or anything, it's just the way he is. And he ended up going past a PD Interceptor that he spotted too late. Now comes the "ohshitimfucked.png" from my character, but the Interceptor simply shrugged it off cause the car's fast by default and I can only assume they thought I was hoping for a pursuit. Lately I've seen a lot of PD units just not pull people over because they automatically assume that the person's gonna evade.

 

There's a lot of car enthusiasts out there that sometimes speed and run red lights, and to be honest, RP with law enforcement is a massive part of car enthusiast RP. From being pulled over to having shit impounded, checks, or just random talks.

 

To sum it up, I'm not talking shit about PD or saying how provoking's fun. Hell, if someone kept driving around me hoping for a pursuit, I wouldn't chase them either. But just because a few bad apples beg for pursuits doesn't mean PD should give up pulling over sports cars and all. We're not all here to evade. Like I said, PD RP is vital to car enthusiast roleplay, and it sucks when my character fucks up only for a cop to shrug it off because he thought I'd evade. Long story short, a lot of cops hesitate pulling sports cars over because they assume they'll just evade.

 

I understand where you are trying to get to with this reply and I agree that for people that actually roleplay a car enthusiast that breaks road laws often and actually would like to interact with PD more can be frustrating. And I do agree, that most people in PD won't bother much to interact with people that are speeding. That happens due to the fact that, most of our cars won't even catch up to pull you over, and most people that do that, are cop baiters, which you are not responsible for, obviously. In regards to car meetings, and all other sorts of vehicle enthusiast roleplay, we can try to enforce more interactions there, specially in our Traffic Division, which is something that we are looking into, with the creation of more operations and more traffic stop roleplay, other than the routine ones. Thank you once more for your feedback!

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10 minutes ago, JustAnM43 said:

To sum it up, I'm not talking shit about PD or saying how provoking's fun. Hell, if someone kept driving around me hoping for a pursuit, I wouldn't chase them either. But just because a few bad apples beg for pursuits doesn't mean PD should give up pulling over sports cars and all. We're not all here to evade. Like I said, PD RP is vital to car enthusiast roleplay, and it sucks when my character fucks up only for a cop to shrug it off because he thought I'd evade. Long story short, a lot of cops hesitate pulling sports cars over because they assume they'll just evade.

 

Half of the problem with that is people also tend to have an issue keeping up with some cars to pull them over however with the amount of cop baiting that does go on, people tend to want to avoid it because they feel it brings little roleplay to them however, you are extremely correct in that matter that more pull overs do need to occur, however there are some cases that not pulling people over is a completely IC choice, it hard to discreen when this is legitimate however. 

 

7 minutes ago, zaXer. said:

The amount of high ranked police officers (even supervisors) that have unrealistic character portrayal.

The high ranks and supervisors should be people who need to give the community an example of proper character development.

Once I open a few facebrowser pages of high ranked LSPD personnel I instantly cringe, and this has been brought multiple times already.

 

The second thing is, again, a very talked over topic, robocops. I've been in PD for over 2 years on LSRP and it was the same issue there. The amount of police officers who portray their situations properly is too low, the inner personal feelings, the feel of being worried about someone, upset, etc, is way too low. I know there are police officers IRL who are gonna ticket you for the smallest things as well, but the percentage here is a bit too high.

 

Combined with above, officers who do not portray their character realistically for then next rank shouldnt be promoted (23 year old sergeants, etc, combined with proper character skin features, not a 30 year old chief looking 17).

 

Another thing that irritates me, black cruisers? Why? The game gives you an option of having a livery, and with mods, countless of options, but why have marked cruisers, with lightbars, marked black? Judging by LAPD IRL, I dont see them having any blacked out cruisers with lightbars. It kind of turns like FD, where 70% of the cars driven are Grangers instead of fire trucks and ambulances, in PD now you see half the staff driving black cruisers rather than white and black. The portrayal is just generally wrong, in my opinion.

 

Your post is a bit odd to me. What is your definition of high ranking personnel. P1-P3+1 is our base force. Sgt/Detectives are middle management and then LT+ would where high ranking comes in as they are apart of the PD leadership. 

 

You may be misinformed however people do not get promoted if they aren't properly roleplay a realistic character nor if it's clear as day that they're being a robocop. Many people can attest to be talked to about their roleplay standards and we don't have anything above the rank of Captain actively patrolling. By the same token, you're also claiming that youthful appearance is non rp but that is just medically incorrect. Genetics are genetics. (Yes I can argue medical practice all day, I've spent a very long time in my real life as a medical provider). The game mechanics also don't exactly help with graceful aging, something which if you look up and down the LAPD's own Command Staff page, not everyone looks like an old man/woman with 50-60 year old wrinkles. 

 

The last point in your post is also extremely confusing. If cruisers appeared blacked out, that's a graphical error. The only time we've had blacked our vehicles were when we had the Sheriff grangers and they were not black and white because obviously, there was no need for the Sheriff's logo to be visible. So once again, it seems you've been misinformed. 

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11 minutes ago, zaXer. said:

The amount of high ranked police officers (even supervisors) that have unrealistic character portrayal.

The high ranks and supervisors should be people who need to give the community an example of proper character development.

Once I open a few facebrowser pages of high ranked LSPD personnel I instantly cringe, and this has been brought multiple times already.

 

The second thing is, again, a very talked over topic, robocops. I've been in PD for over 2 years on LSRP and it was the same issue there. The amount of police officers who portray their situations properly is too low, the inner personal feelings, the feel of being worried about someone, upset, etc, is way too low. I know there are police officers IRL who are gonna ticket you for the smallest things as well, but the percentage here is a bit too high.

 

Combined with above, officers who do not portray their character realistically for then next rank shouldnt be promoted (23 year old sergeants, etc, combined with proper character skin features, not a 30 year old chief looking 17).

 

Another thing that irritates me, black cruisers? Why? The game gives you an option of having a livery, and with mods, countless of options, but why have marked cruisers, with lightbars, marked black? Judging by LAPD IRL, I dont see them having any blacked out cruisers with lightbars. It kind of turns like FD, where 70% of the cars driven are Grangers instead of fire trucks and ambulances, in PD now you see half the staff driving black cruisers rather than white and black. The portrayal is just generally wrong, in my opinion.

The black versions of police vehicles (with no livery) are unmarked vehicles that serve their purpose. We had more vehicles that were blacked out because we couldn't get the proper livery. With server side mods we are currently working on fixing that.

 

The age argument you're making.. I can say a lot about that but you're making assumptions. We have clear guides (and minimal requirements) for realistic age roleplay. There are currently no 30 year old chiefs in my faction nor are there 20 year old sergeants. And when it is found out that someone is roleplaying unrealistic ages (which has happened in the past, people make mistakes) they are instantly rectified. As for social media? Cringe all you like; these are law enforcement professionals who will constantly promote feelgood bullshit because they're public officials without political color. Some will be less so and others more so. We do try to portray our faction's official pages as close to realistic as possible (which I believe we are doing) but as for people's personal pages; again. I cannot monitor everything that happens and if none of it is reported, there is not much we can do. I suggest you take a look at some of the instagram pages belonging to the LAPD (or other U.S. Police Departments for that matter) and try to see the line we're aiming to follow. I'm sure we make mistakes, but that's that.

 

Either way when I wrote this topic I specifically mentioned this: 

''Before you post though, I have to clarify one thing:

Our faction has more than a hundred players in it and will continue to grow. My fellow leaders and I are not present for every interaction you might have with any INDIVIDUAL faction member, and thus I would like you to refrain from posting complaints about individual interactions in this thread. If you wish to file a complaint, please refer to this forum (https://lspd.gta.world/viewforum.php?f=261) or send a PM directly to me.''

 

Other than the blacked out cruisers you are bringing forward mistakes that individuals make. I cannot do anything with that information unless I get a report about the specific person: So once again, please FILE A REPORT so it can be dealt with appropriately.

 

 

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Gonna start off by saying that I'm glad to see that a thread like this was finally made, as I have some things that I'd like to point out for a while now.

 

 

The first thing that I'd like to point out is the pursuit protocols on this server. To my understanding, it's basically the old take off, call it into TAC, intercept, and try to box them in as soon as possible. Boxing is the first thing I'd like to cover.

This technique is pretty ancient and is something that roleplay servers are starting to get rid of. Boxing in suspects is inherently dangerous and possesses a massive risk for all the officers that do so, and it's not used in real life by big departments such as the LAPD. The suspect can easily pull out a gun and start popping shots at the officers who've boxed him in. I understand that you guys don't box suspects who are known to be armed but you can never be sure. Along with that, boxing looks really messy and unprofessional. High-risk stops are what's done when a suspect's vehicle stops in real life instead of surrounding it with cruisers.

r6y9G3l.png

This is an example of a high-risk stop. Cruisers parked behind the suspect's car, shouting verbal commands over the PA.

fN3YSfW.png

Here's a high-risk stop in action.

 

Another issue that I won't put too much into, are high-speed vehicles owned by the department. It's not a common thing I've seen around here, however, this is another thing from the older days on RP servers. High-performance vehicles would cost a ton of money for the department to maintain and simply not be efficient. They're unrealistic for the department to possess. Even the LAPD's Lambo isn't used for pursuits, it's only used for charity purposes.

 

The next issue I'd like to tackle is character portrayal. With all due respect, some of the character portrayal I've seen from some members in this faction is just blatantly unrealistic. This includes age, income, and assets. Not gonna point any fingers but I've seen a Detective III with a bachelors degree at 24 years old who was even featured in a department newsletter with that exact backstory. Detective IIIs are the equivalent of Sergeant IIs who'd be in their late thirties to early forties. In my opinion, you guys should lay out a rule requiring members to roleplay being a certain age at a certain rank. There's a rank guide somewhere on the forums which you guys can take influence from.

I've also seen several sports/supercars parked outside Mission Row, and have seen members of the faction driving such cars (can't remember who exactly, so I couldn't report them if I wanted to).  It should be understood that being a police officer is a job for their character; their main source of income. A POII in the LAPD alone makes around ~$71,000 a year pre-tax. 

 

If I come up with anything else, I'll post it, however, these are the primary issues which I could think about at the top of my head.

 

 

Edited by CloutToken
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8 minutes ago, CloutToken said:

Gonna start off by saying that I'm glad to see that a thread like this was finally made, as I have some things that I'd like to point out for a while now.

 

 

The first thing that I'd like to point out is the pursuit protocols on this server. To my understanding, it's basically the old take off, call it into TAC, intercept, and try to box them in as soon as possible. Boxing is the first thing I'd like to cover.

This technique is pretty ancient and is something that roleplay servers are starting to get rid of. Boxing in suspects is inherently dangerous and possesses a massive risk for all the officers that do so, and it's not used in real life by big departments such as the LAPD. The suspect can easily pull out a gun and start popping shots at the officers who've boxed him in. I understand that you guys don't box suspects who are known to be armed but you can never be sure. Along with that, boxing looks really messy and unprofessional. High-risk stops are what's done when a suspect's vehicle stops in real life instead of surrounding it with cruisers.

r6y9G3l.png

This is an example of a high-risk stop. Cruisers parked behind the suspect's car, shouting verbal commands over the PA.

fN3YSfW.png

Here's a high-risk stop in action.

 

Another issue that I won't put too much into, are high-speed vehicles owned by the department. It's not a common thing I've seen around here, however, this is another thing from the older days on RP servers. High-performance vehicles would cost a ton of money for the department to maintain and simply not be efficient. They're unrealistic for the department to possess. Even the LAPD's Lambo isn't used for pursuits, it's only used for charity purposes.

 

The next issue I'd like to tackle is character portrayal. With all due respect, some of the character portrayal I've seen from some members in this faction is just blatantly unrealistic. This includes age, income, and assets. Not gonna point any fingers but I've seen a Detective III with a bachelors degree at 24 years old who was even featured in a department newsletter with that exact backstory. Detective IIIs are the equivalent of Sergeant IIs who'd be in their late thirties to early forties. In my opinion, you guys should lay out a rule requiring members to roleplay being a certain age at a certain rank. There's a rank guide somewhere on the forums which you guys can take influence from.

I've also seen several sports/supercars parked outside Mission Row, and have seen members of the faction driving such cars (can't remember who exactly, so I couldn't report them if I wanted to).  It should be understood that being a police officer is a job for their character; their main source of income. A POII in the LAPD alone makes around ~$71,000 a year pre-tax. 

 

If I come up with anything else, I'll post it, however, these are the primary issues which I could think about at the top of my head.

 

 

I'll limit my response to the first two things. Once again, complaints about individuals, don't post them here. Please send them to my PM box. There is nothing I can do with this information unfortunately. I cannot give people feedback/punish their behaviour if I don't know who it is. Also that newsletter age was incorrect as the person forgot to update their facebrowser info. It was rectified when it was found out. We have those rules in place and you're aware of that. As for the cars; you might think that they are too expensive but that is subjective and not factual per say. We regularly perform asset checks (and when reported) where we review someone's assets thoroughly. If your assets are deemed unrealistic we take action, if not, it's fine. Some of these cars just look fast but in reality really aren't thus they are relatively cheap.

 

As for the high risk stop; it's something we can definitely discuss. I'll bring it up during the command meeting to see if it's a viable tactic for us to use. As for high speed vehicles, we don't own any because we all felt like it doesn't fit. We will have faster and slower cruisers and that's what we're limited to using; a decision we wholly agree with. There are many more assets we can use to catch high speed / dangerous subjects. Thank you for your feedback!

Edited by Big_Smokes
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I'd like to add to Big Smokes reply, that inside the PD forums we have multiple guides regarding assets, and how to make a sort of comparison between IG and real life, like, how much each rank IRL gets paid, bonus depending on divisions, education etc etc. Thank you for your feedback regarding the felony stops and pursuit tactics, we will definitely discuss those. If you have more sort of suggestions like those, do not hesitate on writting them down.

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More portrayal of the LAPD in general. The concept of "that's not fun, this is a game" is outdated. Roleplay is replicating real life and enjoying it. The faction needs to get up to date with what roleplaying in 2019 is all about in my opinion, but I have noticed improvement lately. Although I still believe that bad roleplayers need to be taken care of more. Less "detailed /mes make you a good roleplayer" and more "showing genuine emotion, development and realistic portrayal of an LAPD officer makes you a good roleplayer." The most minor details can make the faction much more immersive, and most importantly more satisfying to roleplay with.

 

Some minor things that could help immersion and make the faction feel more like a real police agency based in a city like Los Santos:

  • Making Lieutenant I/Lieutenant II supervisory ranks instead of command
  • Creating Captain I, II and III ranks with different available assignments. Officers don't need to go from I, to II to III, they can skip some paygrades and then go straight up to Commander afterwards, so it shouldn't much of a big deal - that typically happens in another server I play. An officer could go from Police Sergeant II to Police Lieutenant II, it depends on their assignment.
  • Refering to paygrade upgrades as upgrades, not promotions, downgrades as downgrades not demotions. A Promotion is a rank group change update. For example, Police Officer III+1 to Police Sergeant I is an upgrade, so's Police Sergeant II to Police Lieutenant II, but Police Lieutenant I to Police Lieutenant II is an upgrade, so's Captain II to Captain III, but Captain III to Commander is an upgrade.
  • LAPD callsign system update (http://watch-command-1142464325.us-east-1.elb.amazonaws.com/lapd_manual/volume_2.htm#068) 6222770.png
  • So instead of 2-LINCOLN-1, it'd be 20L11, meaning 20 Lincoln 11. The LAPD frequently abbreviate their callsigns over their rovers. This is because where Mission Row is in the LA counterpart is in the Olympic Area, which callsigns begin with 20.
  • Remove boxing and using your cruiser as roadblocks. These are very outdated tactics and only used by tactical units in BEARCATs nowadays. A few small agencies box, but the LAPD most certainly does not.
  • Remove HSIU. A department like the LSPD doesn't have that sort of money. Use more AIR units and start using tracking mode.
  • Less roleplay focus on detailed /mes and more on character portrayal and development.
  • More realistic radio policies in general. Less "code 0", more "officer needs help".

I've got a lot of other things I can come up with but I'll likely post these as suggestions if I were to get into the faction when my ban expires.

 

On the contrary, I'll mention some positive things. I've had a lot of positive discussions on the Discord lately and this has motivated me to want to help this faction. People seem genuinely respectful there. Me and @CloutToken want to publicly apologise for coming off as hostile - that wasn't our intent but I've cleared this up with Smokey. Me personally, I've noticed a great change of mindset of a lot of people in the faction. There seems to be more roleplay focus going on already, especially with the whole custom cruisers and everything. The faction seems to be going in the right direction.

 

Edit: Something I forgot to mention: Captains shouldn't be patrolling as an everyday thing. Captains do hit the streets but it's not common. They might finish their paperwork and decide to get on duty, but it's really not a common thing. Captain+ should be given an alternative account to have as their main patrol character.

Edited by Matthew
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53 minutes ago, CloutToken said:

Not gonna point any fingers but I've seen a Detective III with a bachelors degree at 24 years old who was even featured in a department newsletter with that exact backstory. Detective IIIs are the equivalent of Sergeant IIs who'd be in their late thirties to early forties. In my opinion, you guys should lay out a rule requiring members to roleplay being a certain age at a certain rank. There's a rank guide somewhere on the forums which you guys can take influence from.

Going to respond to this directly as there’s only one Detective III in the faction.

 

This was an issue of miscommunication by virtue of my characters age never being referenced anywhere and PD being essentially smacked through an age change every month or every other month when we receive promotions. 

 

It’s an important thing to flag up, but it was also rectified very quickly by STAFF and myself as being false and a mistake when conveying information. It wasn’t intentional nor is it acceptable faction standard - I agree.

 

I do think it looks bad and is important to clarify, so thank you for highlighting it. Realistic portrayal is important, but genuine mistakes do happen along the line when you’re essentially sped through ranks and ages with the server around you moving at a normal pace. The best we can do is catch our slip ups if and when they happen!

Edited by Hlym
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12 minutes ago, Matthew said:

More portrayal of the LAPD in general. The concept of "that's not fun, this is a game" is outdated. Roleplay is replicating real life and enjoying it. The faction needs to get up to date with what roleplaying in 2019 is all about in my opinion, but I have noticed improvement lately. Although I still believe that bad roleplayers need to be taken care of more. Less "detailed /mes make you a good roleplayer" and more "showing genuine emotion, development and realistic portrayal of an LAPD officer makes you a good roleplayer." The most minor details can make the faction much more immersive, and most importantly more satisfying to roleplay with.

 

Some minor things that could help immersion and make the faction feel more like a real police agency based in a city like Los Santos:

  • Making Lieutenant I/Lieutenant II supervisory ranks instead of command
  • Creating Captain I, II and III ranks with different available assignments. Officers don't need to go from I, to II to III, they can skip some paygrades and then go straight up to Commander afterwards, so it shouldn't much of a big deal - that typically happens in another server I play. An officer could go from Police Sergeant II to Police Lieutenant II, it depends on their assignment.
  • Refering to paygrade upgrades as upgrades, not promotions, downgrades as downgrades not demotions. A Promotion is a rank group change update. For example, Police Officer III+1 to Police Sergeant I is an upgrade, so's Police Sergeant II to Police Lieutenant II, but Police Lieutenant I to Police Lieutenant II is an upgrade, so's Captain II to Captain III, but Captain III to Commander is an upgrade.
  • LAPD callsign system update (http://watch-command-1142464325.us-east-1.elb.amazonaws.com/lapd_manual/volume_2.htm#068) 6222770.png
  • So instead of 2-LINCOLN-1, it'd be 20L11, meaning 20 Lincoln 11. The LAPD frequently abbreviate their callsigns over their rovers. This is because where Mission Row is in the LA counterpart is in the Olympic Area, which callsigns begin with 20.
  • Remove boxing and using your cruiser as roadblocks. These are very outdated tactics and only used by tactical units in BEARCATs nowadays. A few small agencies box, but the LAPD most certainly does not.
  • Remove HSIU. A department like the LSPD doesn't have that sort of money. Use more AIR units and start using tracking mode.
  • Less roleplay focus on detailed /mes and more on character portrayal and development.
  • More realistic radio policies in general. Less "code 0", more "officer needs help".

I've got a lot of other things I can come up with but I'll likely post these as suggestions if I were to get into the faction when my ban expires.

 

On the contrary, I'll mention some positive things. I've had a lot of positive discussions on the Discord lately and this has motivated me to want to help this faction. People seem genuinely respectful there. Me and @CloutToken want to publicly apologise for coming off as hostile - that wasn't our intent but I've cleared this up with Smokey. Me personally, I've noticed a great change of mindset of a lot of people in the faction. There seems to be more roleplay focus going on already, especially with the whole custom cruisers and everything. The faction seems to be going in the right direction.

These are fair suggestions that we discussed and yes, we wish to portray a police department inspired by the LAPD. We do not however want to be a 100% copy and the ranks you've suggested, even if I wanted to implement them, couldn't do it properly because we lack the people for it. That aside, the structure as is works better for us and we have decided against cosmetic change for the sake of change because we prefer the functionality of current processes. We are not interested in increasing the amount of forum work we have simply to be a 100% direct copy of the LAPD. That being said most of your suggestions are cosmetic internal changes that really won't effect the faction's relationship with the public. That doesn't mean we're against cosmetic change or that cosmetic change is altogether not beneficial, we just feel like it isn't at this moment in time. I could raise them up to be discussed in the command team again, but we recently discussed and denied all those suggestions for the above reasons. Ask yourself, what IS the difference between making Lieutenant a supervisor rank or keeping it in command? It literally has no effect inside our outside of the game other than creating a whole bunch of ranks we don't need and won't make us function any better. Best part is; we won't even be able to implement them in-game anyway because we don't have the faction rank slots for it.

 

Moving on. We have completely moved away from 10 codes a while back and use plain English. We had a faction wide vote on this and the decision was made to keep the codes. This is the system the entire faction (by majority vote) preferred. Some people will not like it, others will love it. As for pursuit tactics like I've stated before, we'll happily review any suggestions made; but we cannot abolish tactics without finding a suitable replacement that works. 

 

Finally, in regards to HSIU, we don't have traditional HSIU as I've stated before. We do have HSIU so that our fastest vehicle can be used by people outside of the division that uses it as their primary patrol vehicle for contingencies. These are not super cars, these are black and whites.

Edited by Big_Smokes
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