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Disclaimer before PMs or in the rules


Mantle

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As suggested, I'll make a constructive topic. If you want to insult me for thinking constructively here on how to improve the server, go ahead but I simply won't be responding to those people. If you can stay on topic related to this suggestion, that would be appreciated. Maybe it's a controversial suggestion but I'm sure we can all remain cordial. 

 

I'll try keep the actual suggestion short with a spoiler box below with an example, for those who don't understand exactly what I'm talking about here.

 

Short description: 

 

A disclaimer should be added before any in game personal message (/pm) that shows the player initiating the conversation that their messages can and will be monitored so any form of joking, discussion that is not meant to be taken as serious should be avoided as this may be interpreted wrong by staff of the server.

 

Detailed description:

 

OK, detailed. So, I come from a server which I've noticed this server largely has routed it's foundations off of and most likely a large chunk of the player base comes from. When I first joined, I assumed everything would've been mostly the same due to that fact. Along the way, I've noticed that is not the case. I've been slowly adjusting to this server and have noticed some things that could do with adjustment to avoid confusion and problems. 

 

This topic is about punishment for attempted meta game. Now, I played the server that I believe this server has followed in the foot steps of for probably around 10 years. I've accumulated a lot of time in game and became familiar with their rules, script and how the server works.

 

Now, on this server I'm speaking about, if I'm in a vehicle with my friend and I personal message another guy.. "Yo man, been waiting 30 mins, where have you gone? you AFK?" as we were expecting to roleplay with each other and obviously if he's gone, I don't want to be waiting around forever. Now, if he responds "Sorry bro I was kidnapped at the bikers bar", that situation by itself is completely fine on said server. You received info out-of-character about an in-character situation but you've yet to use it in-character so there is no rule broken and trust me, I've been in these situations on that server and have even had staff members involved too and nothing was ever said or done. It was completely fine and I understand why: nobody had their roleplayed ruined as no action actually resulted in-character from that info.

 

Now, if I asked "man where are you, you afk?" through personal messages and he tells me, I pack up the vehicles and burst in shooting everyone dead with the info he gave me, obviously that is clear meta game and on said server, the victim party would report and I (the reported party) MUST show evidence of how I found said info of where they were. Since there would be zero evidence, I'd be admin jailed. 

 

So from the above: this server that I and most of this servers players (guessing) come from DOES NOT punish for simple questions and humorous conversations on PMs unless it was actually used in-character. Matter of fact, they cannot see personal messages in game. They check VERY rarely if the player is reported after the situation unfolded and nobody has evidence. I understand why: an admin watching in on two out-of-character friends speaking about whatever has no idea of the context or if the two are being serious or not. For them to take action, on the fly, before any of the info was used in-character, would simply be jumping the gun and premature punishment of what may have been nothing that was going to actually happen in-character.

 

Onto this server and why I think something needs to be suggested:

 

OK so on this server, your personal messages in game (/pm) can and will be watched by admins. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No. Is it a good thing? No. It's just "meh", I see why it's there and I can also see why the other server doesn't have it. I'm not saying remove it completely. I'm not saying anything like that. For those who are unaware, on this server, if you were to conduct the above situation that I wrote, you would've been admin jailed before anything in-character actually happened as a result of the out-of-character gained info which is classified on here as "attempted" meta game which I frankly this is not possible within that rule. In my belief from roleplaying through the years, meta game either happens... or it doesn't.

 

I either personal message you with "Yo man, wtf is taking you so long cooking them eggs bro (IRL)? where tf u at?" to then be told "I'm watching a movie with my family (IRL), sorry bro" or to be told "I'm at the fishing spot, was chased by cops, come scoop me" and then I FOLLOW THROUGH and actually go pick you up. The latter is meta game, the first is "attempted" meta game (from my understanding) by this servers definition despite nothing happening in-character, which is partially the issue here. It's two friends just chatting. No harm was done for an admin needed to get involved in anything. I don't believe "attempted" meta game is a thing. The info is either used in-character.... or it isn't.

 

But anyways, a simple resolution to everything here without going too deep into the attempted meta game stuff, would be any one of the following:

 

  1. Give a disclaimer somewhere upon registration to the server that in game PMs can be seen by admins.
  2. Give a disclaimer before sending the in game PM that it can be seen by admins.
  3. Give a disclaimer in the forum rules that in game PMs are watched.

 

The truth is: I would never speak about 90% of the things I speak about in game as even though I'm joking and/or having fun with my out-of-character friends, I'm oblivious that a third person may be reading what I'm saying and may pick up the situation wrong and pull the trigger of punishing me too early. A simple disclaimer avoids all of this. 

 

Finally, a real life example to explain where I'm coming from is the following:

 

Three people involved in a situation. A detective. Two friends. In this situation, the detective is the admin. The two friends is... myself and John (random name).

 

I go to a pub with John and I drink fifteen shots of Jager. I'm twisted drunk. Little do I know: my phone is bugged and the person listening on the other end is the detective (admin). I step outside of the pub, I ring up John and I tell him (jokingly) the following: "Yo man, I'm driving home" (as a joke: there is NO intention to actually drive the vehicle - or in game: follow through with the out-of-character info given to be used in-character. It's just HARMLESS talk between two friends, oblivious that a 3rd party may be listening and pick up the situation wrong), now... right at this situation here is where the detective comes along and puts me in jail for driving whilst impaired, despite never even reaching the car to actually do anything. I just said it. This is what happened in my situation. I was joking with a friend, I said something, an admin PMed me (within seconds) asking why I said what I said and I immediately and truthfully answered "It was a joke" (oblivious that admins could see PMs, hence this topic) to which I was admin jailed for 60 minutes. Key thing to note: I didn't act on any info given to me in-character nor did I have any intention to act upon any info. It was exactly what I said: a joke, between a friend I've known for a year out-of-character, that was picked up wrong.

 

Now how this situation unfolds realistically is: I leave the bar, I call to say I'm driving home over the phone, the detective hears me saying this, they pull up and observe me. They see me get into a vehicle. They make an arrest. No issue.

 

I guess this is almost two suggestions: attempted meta game is a really flawed suspect when PMs can be watched as the context of the PMs can be seen differently by an observing an admin thus leading to a preemptive admin jail that is ultimately not necessary.

 

In short: add a disclaimer

  • Somewhere about PMs are watched.
  • Careful with preemptive admin jails.

 

Commands to add:

 

None, just a disclaimer to go along with /pm OR a disclaimer in the rules section of the forums that says something along the lines of: "In game personal messages are visible to administrators" works perfectly fine.

 

Items to add:

 

None.

 

How would your suggestion improve the server?

 

Less confusion. Less problems.

 

Additional information:

 

For those who say the following: "Everything gets logged on the server". I am fully aware that there is logs for literally everything that an admin wants logs for. 

Spoiler

 

The difference here is this: if I'm in game right now and I suspect my friend, who I was supposed to be roleplaying with, is AFK for whatever reason and I PM "Yo, where are you man? AFK? Hurry up" and he responds "Man I got kidnapped at some biker bar"... okay, now we have a situation in-character that I was informed about. With that info, nothing bad has been done. Now, if I show up to this bar out of nowhere guns blazing, it's obvious that I meta gamed that info and actually followed through with action in-character thus breaking the rules. 

 

So now imagine those bikers go ahead and report me for actually doing something bad to their experience in game. The admins in THAT situation would check the logs and realize "Wow, he did actually meta game by using this info in-character as the report suggests", that is how MOST functioning servers work.

 

In this situation, before anything was done in-character, an admin jail was issued. As I said, I was joking. I answered this to the admin with literally a second of being asked. It was a joke question through PERSONAL messaging that I believed wasn't watched thus I could joke freely. Obviously that isn't the case hence why I made this post is made to inform others who may make the same mistake in the future and perhaps give a disclaimer somewhere along the way during registration. 

 

For those that will say "This is how all servers work"... you're so wrong. The biggest English speaking heavy RP SAMP server (avoiding names as I'm not here to advertise), widely known as the best, does not work like this. The PMs are private. If you believe someone meta gamed information and then used it in-character, you report them with relevant evidence and it's investigated. Nothing is ever done to anyone for discussing anything that is never followed through with/reported as that is outright pointless.

 

 

REMINDER: I AM NOT ATTACKING ANYBODY. I SIMPLY WANT TO VOICE MY SUGGESTION, IF YOU'RE COMMENTING - PLEASE READ THROUGH THOROUGHLY AND PERHAPS TRY TO SEE HOW THE CURRENT WAY MIGHT BE FLAWED IN REGARDS TO WHAT I'VE SAID. IF YOU STILL THINK I'M WRONG, PLEASE SAY SO IN YOUR OWN WORDS WITHOUT BEING OFFENSIVE AS I DO NOT WANT THIS POST LOCKED FOR GOING OFF TOPIC.

 

I'm willing to change my stance on everything, if the right counter is presented. Until then, please discuss. ?

Edited by Mantle
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Stop spamming the forum everywhere to push your agenda.

Every servers logs PMs, if that's a new thing to you that you can't metagame on PMs, sorry it happens.

 

Yes we will most likely not catch it on the spot, bad luck your friend was being spectated as he was in a pursuit and actively breaking a rule as he got reported (running after doing 8 barrel rolls), and you got caught trying to metagame.

 

It's obvious everything said ingame can be seen by the server owner and administrators with the necessary permissions, it's the same everywhere and no, we won't put a disclaimer.

Edited by Nervous
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