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PK / Value of Life Rule Discussion


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2 minutes ago, aldo said:

But when you get PK’d, you get sent to the hospital... so you would have to rp injuries.

So you think that just because you mechanically respawn at the hospital, you should have to RP injuries? After you die?
 

What?. You die. It's over. How can you be expected to RP injuries you can't have any memory of getting? You can't. That makes zero sense. 

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1 hour ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:



Here is the flaw. If you pull a gun on someone in a robbery and they book it, I guarantee that you're saying they didn't RP fear. But in your scenario, if they do exactly that, you're saying they're RPing fear.

To be honest the "fear stipulation" can't really be put into rules other than very broadly and let the admin handling the situation make a judgement call.
Your argument leads to a "whoever pulls first wins" fostering, and that's not necessarily correct either.

I've been involved in robberies on both sides of the law here. Here's where it gets dicey, The whole part of patting someone down while holding a gun on them. Attention is split, and people have the chance to make their move. However if that gets done on this server, the robbing party is usually pretty quick to cry fowl because they have a gun and there is no possible way that someone could surprise them because they're the best criminal ever and can do nine things at once. Nevermind the fact the person they're robbing may be a veteran, self defense coach or coached, etc. It doesn't matter. The inverse effect to that is the person who is being robbed is all of the sudden RPing that they're John Wick. RPing fear is worded the way it is for a reason. It's there so when the situation comes on, the parties have an option to explain their backstories and how or why unfolded events may have unfolded the way they did.

But that's never how things go. Because the second a scenario comes up where someone is going to take a loss, they want to cry bullshit about characters they probably know nothing about.

 


Here is the thing here, if you die in a scenario, you lose all memory of the scenario. You shouldn't RP injuries in an event you were killed in if you have to act as if nothing happened. If you die, you die. Scenario over. If you're wounded and not RPing your injuries, that's an issue that needs to be reported. Making someone sit something out mechanically is not the way to handle that.

We are not just discussing the fear stipulation, we are discussing someone's value for their own life. Not everyone is going to be "afraid" for mentioned reasons as you said (the person being robbed could be a Veteran, self-defense coach, etc.). Therefore under a similar Value of Life report, they can provide the appropriate back story and reasoning for not displaying fear and disarming the robber. 

 

I am discussing another aspect of this, regarding to PK's in illegal role play outside of simple robberies. Most illegal role players display no value of life when in certain situations, not just robberies. Shoot outs between criminals, police evasion and shooting at police, etc. I am not fostering a "who pulls first" scenario, I am fostering a situation that calls for them to make a decision to break the rule of "Value of Life", which in turn ends up with heavier consequences than just a regular PK and a loss of items. We're not talking about just a robbery situation here.

 

In regards to the last part you quoted, I misread his response. I was referring to when they get shot/stabbed/etc. and don't die, just a simple RP to the hospital and all of a sudden their injuries are magically healed. Sorry for the confusion.

Edited by Kestalas
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Just now, Kestalas said:

We are not just discussing the fear stipulation, we are discussing someone's value for their own life. Not everyone is going to be "afraid" for mentioned reasons as you said (the person being robbed could be a Veteran, self-defense coach, etc.). Therefore under a similar Value of Life report, they can provide the appropriate back story and reasoning for not displaying fear and disarming the robber. 

 

I am discussing another aspect of this, regarding to PK's in illegal role play outside of simple robberies. Most illegal role players display no fear when in certain situations, not just robberies. Shoot outs between criminals, police evasion and shooting at police, etc. I am not fostering a "who pulls first" scenario, I am fostering a situation that calls for them to make a decision to break the rule of "Value of Life", which in turn ends up with heavier consequences than just a regular PK and a loss of items. We're not talking about just a robbery situation here.

You are using the fear stipulation as a crutch for your entire argument. My point is/was that there is no real need for this topic. It's a moot point. Because we can't even get fear fleshed out. If you want to approach it differently about people just generally doing dumb things with their characters like running upon a group of people with a gun to kill one person, make that argument. If it's not what you're saying, then like I said, what are we even talking about then?

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6 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

You are using the fear stipulation as a crutch for your entire argument. My point is/was that there is no real need for this topic. It's a moot point. Because we can't even get fear fleshed out. If you want to approach it differently about people just generally doing dumb things with their characters like running upon a group of people with a gun to kill one person, make that argument. If it's not what you're saying, then like I said, what are we even talking about then?

Value of Life is what I'm discussing, look at the topic title. Fear is just one aspect of the discussion. Re-read what I've said please. You're keying in on one point of discussion and not talking about anything else. I have approached it that way, in regards to people doing things with their characters. This is completely separate from Fear RP and it's been discussed that way. 

 

Quote

However, a player's value of their own life doesn't seem to have any sort of affect in illegal RP when you look at situations with gun fights, gang disputes, shootouts with Police, evasions, driving recklessly, etc. Why? The end result is a PK that is ultimately temporary and players OOC are aware they will just be able to /acceptdeath and start right back up again with zero consequence besides losing their items. So, in a gang shootout, players have no real value of life because a PK is just a PK. They forget it ever happened and go on about their day.

 

Scenario B is where I'd like modified PK rules put in place for violation of a value of life rule. People could argue that shooting back was for the reason of  fear for their lives, but I could argue that running for cover and preserving their lives would be the appropriate reaction if they didn't want to die. Choosing to engage in the shootout is a blatant disregard for their lives. I believe a PK is still the right thing to do, but I think there should be more harsh consequences involved for this specific scenario where there was a disregard for value of life. Here is where I feel there should be a middle ground compromise between a normal PK (server desync, bug, error, accidental shooting, & a number of other situations) versus a PK that involves a disregard for value of life. What those consequences are? I'm not quite sure. That's why I want a discussion about it. I believe there should be way more thought put into one's actions before deciding to act in a manner that would jeopardize their life. The "Value of Life" rule should specifically state that one should always value their life and if that value is disregarded, harsher punishments should be put into place.

Note: I had edit's in there after the fact that weren't included. I meant to word things differently. This is how it's supposed to look.

Edited by Kestalas
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2 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

Okay. I can see that you didn't actually read what I had to say or maybe you just don't understand what I'm saying. And that's fine too. Sometimes there is a disconnect, and I can't get upset at someone for that.

So good luck with the discussion.

I completely understand what you're saying. You've missed my point entirely. See ya.

Edited by Kestalas
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18 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

So you think that just because you mechanically respawn at the hospital, you should have to RP injuries? After you die?
 

What?. You die. It's over. How can you be expected to RP injuries you can't have any memory of getting? You can't. That makes zero sense. 

No, you are literally supposed to RP your injuries..

 

You literally spawn at the hospital because rply you wouldve been taken there

Edited by aldo
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25 minutes ago, aldo said:

But when you get PK’d, you get sent to the hospital... so you would have to rp injuries.

No, when you get PK'd you die. Your character is dead. You start a new life and all your memory / inflictions from the scene involved with your PK is void. Hate to be the one to tell you, but if you're roleplaying injuries from past lives you're actually breaking the rules. 

Edited by Dodo
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8 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

No I got it. My point is, it's not a conversation worth even having.

So you're okay with criminals engaging in a shoot out with other criminals with no regards to their own life, and receiving the same punishment as an innocent bystander caught in the crossfire? Just a regular PK with a loss of items and its over? Someone who blatantly has a disregard for their own life, should receive something worse than just a simple PK and its all done and forgotten. The problem is that a lot of illegal RP'ers walk around like they are John Wick because of this very issue. This is the issue at hand. I'm not sure why that's not worth discussing, but alright. You have a right to an opinion.

Edited by Kestalas
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