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Separate /Bad Purchase


Rayy

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Perhaps there could be a compromise?

 

For example, a business run by someone who is not a donator could do an advertisement, and have it's blip invisible and players who wish to find said business can do a command which will make the blip appear clientside for THEM only such as /findbusiness (business name).

 

Whereas /bad will remain the same for donators, and the blip will be visible to everybody without having to do a command to search for it.

 

Just a suggestion, I doubt it'll go anywhere though.

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12 hours ago, Nervous said:

I'm going to keep this thread opened since everytime I close one some people don't read and redo one despite the answer being already given.

It's not planned to separate the /bad from packages.

 

Have a great debate!

Shame, Im sure you'd get more money by having a cheaper option out there for /bad instead of forcing people to buy packages where they'll only use one thing from it. Probably why many don't see the value of donating when it really isn't worth the return on the amount. 

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11 hours ago, aldo said:

having /bad only available to donators is literally p2w

The argument is "oh but you dont NEED it" yeah. You dont. Your business wont be found though as people rather go to one of the competitors who have the blip for two reasons:

  1. Easier to find that club; Don't have to jump through hoops in order to locate it
  2. More likely that the club with the blip is visited by others opposed to the ones trying to only use the street name / description

Point 1 may be avoided since you could argue if the feature wouldn't exist alltogether, you would have to research the location anyway. But point 2 is a major player in a.) the competitive aspect of the club / business scene and b.) in how much the business pays off. Doing a /blip literally increases your potential income margin by alot. 

 

That's like making the Gov-Bonus for club entries a donator thing only because "yOu CaN sTiLl HoSt An EvEnT".

 

But the system supposedly used to support this server is in fact the biggest cashcow and selling point for the expensive donator packages. Therefore hell will freeze before something will be done here. That's like asking EA to remove the lootboxes. There are way better incentives that make people more willing to donate into packages without affecting roleplay as the current 1-2 things among 20 useless additions. 

 

If you argue /bad is not impacting roleplay you simply have no idea how people work. Features should only influence your own quality of life not the quality of life for the people you interact with. And that's exactly what's done here. You pay donator so OTHER PEOPLE can engage your business easier and with less hoops to jump through. 

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Just now, Coni said:

The argument is "oh but you dont NEED it" yeah. You dont. Your business wont be found though as people rather go to one of the competitors who have the blip for two reasons:

  1. Easier to find that club; Don't have to jump through hoops in order to locate it
  2. More likely that the club with the blip is visited by others opposed to the ones trying to only use the street name / description

Point 1 may be avoided since you could argue if the feature wouldn't exist alltogether, you would have to research the location anyway. But point 2 is a major player in a.) the competitive aspect of the club / business scene and b.) in how much the business pays off. Doing a /blip literally increases your potential income margin by alot. 

 

That's like making the Gov-Bonus for club entries a donator thing only because "yOu CaN sTiLl HoSt An EvEnT".

 

But the system supposedly used to support this server is in fact the biggest cashcow and selling point for the expensive donator packages. Therefore hell will freeze before something will be done here. That's like asking EA to remove the lootboxes. There are way better incentives that make people more willing to donate into packages without affecting roleplay as the current 1-2 things among 20 useless additions. 

 

If you argue /bad is not impacting roleplay you simply have no idea how people work. Features should only influence your own quality of life not the quality of life for the people you interact with. And that's exactly what's done here. You pay donator so OTHER PEOPLE can engage your business easier and with less hoops to jump through. 

well said

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Oh also - these are not Donations. They are shop items. You buy them. Everywhere in the UCP it's called a purchase. Paypal uses the normal transaction not paypals donation feature. The Packages are called packages not donation packages. The WP Shop uses the marketing 101 tactic of offering more WP the more money you throw at them. The monthly packages and the WP packages you can buy (coincidence, I am sure) never match so you always end up buying more WP than the one you needed but with little enough that you still have to buy another WP package to make the leftover WPs usable again. Someone here learned alot from EA and Ubisoft. 

 

All in all you are not paying to support the server and get a couple of goodies in return. You pay for products and obviously products need to be valuable. Products that are marketed with every basic marketing technique out there and simple enough to use (Wait up until you get a "THIS OFFER FOR ONLY THE NEXT 12H" announcement, calling it). This servers cash shop is no different from other cash shops in other free to play games. In fact it ranks among those who offer things changing the gameplay balance (gameplay here being roleplay due to the nature of this venture) as opposed to only cosmetic, QoL features, so it's not even among the more honorable ones. 

 

Think about that one for a moment. That's why I regret my donation all in all. I thought I was supporting the project. But I bought a product. And measured by the latter it's a shitty deal, really. 

Edited by Coni
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I think donating 20 buck every half year is not such a big deal. Pretty sure there are other non significant aspect where everyone can make some sparing. I can not belive we are arguing over that amount of money when there are certain people over 3-400 hours of gameplay on the server. I get the feeling that some people forget that the server is not running on good intent, theres bills to pay. I think its the least of concern if you want /bad so badly just pay a package. 

Edited by Trukken
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9 minutes ago, Trukken said:

I think donating 20 buck every half year is not such a big deal. Pretty sure there are other non significant aspect where everyone can make some sparing. I can not belive we are arguing over that amount of money when there are certain people over 3-400 hours of gameplay on the server. I get the feeling that some people forget that the server is not running on good intent, theres bills to pay. I think its the least of concern if you want /bad so badly just pay a package. 

1. Gold Donator Rank is not 20 bucks every half year, it's 100€ for a year if you buy it at the start of said year. If you do it every half year like you suggest it costs you 55,00€ (110€ per year) every half year. Gets more expensive the less money you have. You have a weird detachment from monetary value if you think that's not a big deal. 

 

2. It's not a donation, it's a purchase. 

 

3. Everybody understands that the server has bills to pay. I'd say 4/5th of the blayerbase is from LS-RP or at least knows it. Most of them are used to support the server with their money. 

 

4. I'd highly suggest that you personally first open up a nightclub and try to compete in what should be a roleplay matter with no other nightclubs. Except that you will never use /bad. Tell me how unaffected your roleplay experience was by this. Its not about if I want /bad, it's about if I need it. 

 

If this was only about getting bye and the bills paid there are ways to do and achive those objectives without using marketing tactics to create a need and then providing said need for cash under the disguise of it being a "want". For one you could be transparent about the monthly costs. Even if you add your own development time. You could display how much of that was achieved on a monthly basis so those who truely only want to support in paying the bills know when it's not needed. But that would mean losing the potential for a profit now, wouldn't it? 

 

Look at how pro-Bono and other entities based on donations go about getting their bills paid and then look at how BUSINESSES go about getting their bills paid. We could now also start digesting how many people actually pay for those packages right now and I would bet my ass that we have far exceeded the costs of this project. It's turning a profit now, especially when GOLD RANK already costs the people roughly 10 bucks a month and even a single namechange puts you down 5 bucks minimum.

 

This is my beef with it all. If it was about donating then peoples input in this matter would matter. But its about profit and therefore nothing will be changed that could potentially limit the servers profit potential - even if it means tieing a feature to a donator package that restricts those peoples RP income potential ^^

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3 hours ago, Coni said:

1. Gold Donator Rank is not 20 bucks every half year, it's 100€ for a year if you buy it at the start of said year. If you do it every half year like you suggest it costs you 55,00€ (110€ per year) every half year. Gets more expensive the less money you have. You have a weird detachment from monetary value if you think that's not a big deal. 

 

2. It's not a donation, it's a purchase. 

 

3. Everybody understands that the server has bills to pay. I'd say 4/5th of the blayerbase is from LS-RP or at least knows it. Most of them are used to support the server with their money. 

 

4. I'd highly suggest that you personally first open up a nightclub and try to compete in what should be a roleplay matter with no other nightclubs. Except that you will never use /bad. Tell me how unaffected your roleplay experience was by this. Its not about if I want /bad, it's about if I need it. 

 

If this was only about getting bye and the bills paid there are ways to do and achive those objectives without using marketing tactics to create a need and then providing said need for cash under the disguise of it being a "want". For one you could be transparent about the monthly costs. Even if you add your own development time. You could display how much of that was achieved on a monthly basis so those who truely only want to support in paying the bills know when it's not needed. But that would mean losing the potential for a profit now, wouldn't it? 

 

Look at how pro-Bono and other entities based on donations go about getting their bills paid and then look at how BUSINESSES go about getting their bills paid. We could now also start digesting how many people actually pay for those packages right now and I would bet my ass that we have far exceeded the costs of this project. It's turning a profit now, especially when GOLD RANK already costs the people roughly 10 bucks a month and even a single namechange puts you down 5 bucks minimum.

 

This is my beef with it all. If it was about donating then peoples input in this matter would matter. But its about profit and therefore nothing will be changed that could potentially limit the servers profit potential - even if it means tieing a feature to a donator package that restricts those peoples RP income potential ^^

I'm going to answer this before locking the thread since it's now going on a completely different subject and I already answered before.

 

Let me explain you how the France tax system works, I am an auto-entrepreneur due to the various laws that prevents me from opening a full SARL which would allow to me to pay for the cost out of taxes, due to the fact that is his not my main job and it's not supposed to be, as I already have a full job. So I have to pay for 100% of the cost with the AFTER TAXES revenues.

 

On 100€ you purchase, the server receives approximately 35€ (platform fees, 20% VAT, 25% company tax, 30% on my own revenue taxes).

On these 35€ remains to pay the various licenses (teamspeak, forum, various webservices used), game server that is one of the most expensive at OVH due to the amount of bandwith and CPU required to fight DDoS attacks and 200 players reconnecting at the same time, 3 web servers including an expensive one to host all services during DDoS attacks (actually still ongoing), and various developments tools / books / resources I pay.

On summer 2017 alone, it was more than 10 000€ spent building a full new architecture and constantly switching servers to fight a massive and targeted DDoS attack by a spanish hacker, which was just before GTAW EN/US opening and we fought that attack to make sure that /you/ could play without being taken hostage by DDoS attacks.

On december 2017, another wave of attacks, once again more than 5000€ spent due to damn OVH installation fees and insane prices for licenses / bandwith.

On June 2018, when switching from GTMP to RageMP we once again had to change our entire architecture and servers as we had to drop most Linux game servers and adapt to Windows environment, once again thousands spent.

 

This project is not about profiting - It's about creating the best roleplay experience I can provide to all, doing this requires resources which by extreme luck I had thanks to my IRL job. However running a server base on my resources only for years isn't something healthy for myself or my family which you would understand, so your donations help us 1) paying the cost of the server, which never paid for itself until January 2019 due to the high amount of taxes that I'm under of in France. 2) get back resources that I personally paid (in total It's a loss of approximately 25k€ in 2 years) while donations were not covering the cost and had to be used to defend ourselves or adapt to external changes (change of emulator). I doubt I'll see enough "profits" to get back these 25k in the next years, however this helps me collect enough resources to face future challenges and keep the server in a healthy way on financial side for your own protection and future comfort.

3) If one day I may actually profit from the server, this will also be a great news and my only dream is for the server to grow enough so that we can fully pay people that also spend lot of their time developing as I do on the server.

 

These 1), 2), 3) requires optimizations and I would be dumb not to optimize as much as possible the shop to ensure a healthy flow of donations coming up every months, without ever selling direct GTAW cash, vehicles or weapons like other servers can do. From these optimizations and statistics analysis, I'll repeat this again, it is not planned to put /bad as a standalone package.

Edited by Nervous
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