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NPC's in Los Santos


MkLvn

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45 minutes ago, MkLvn said:

if you're gonna respond to a post try reading it first ...

ye i misread it like a dingus but anyways store keeps and such in my opinion should be allowed to be roleplayed,  Like what Chef stated as long as they aren't used to give an advantage to someone and why not it just adds to rp if anything. then i dont think theres an issue. The rule should be reworded and I think should allow passive types of RP with store keeps and other things that give no advantages to the player and only really add to the RP that the player wishes to do.

Edited by SpawnMatrix
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12 hours ago, SpawnMatrix said:

ye i misread it like a dingus but anyways store keeps and such in my opinion should be allowed to be roleplayed,  Like what Chef stated as long as they aren't used to give an advantage to someone and why not it just adds to rp if anything. then i dont think theres an issue. The rule should be reworded and I think should allow passive types of RP with store keeps and other things that give no advantages to the player and only really add to the RP that the player wishes to do.

Yeah I agree to this as well, just remember "no advantages to any player whatsoever" and all good. I mean I used to have fun RPing stupid stuff with NPC.

BUT

The thing is, imagine if you RP-ed an NPC and then another player walks in, would the NPC just randomly disappear or still there? if it's still there, what if that other player made a conflict with the NPC and fight, maybe killed the NPC and then there are police and ambulance and you're just there RPing the NPC? or maybe you're the one that got robbed in front of the NPC? and what happened next? would the NPC fight the robber? I don't know I might be just overthinking this. My point is, it's safer to not RP NPC at all. I mean if you're sure that you are actually alone then fine.

 

Edited by LookAtMyRight
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2 hours ago, LookAtMyRight said:

Yeah I agree to this as well, just remember "no advantages to any player whatsoever" and all good. I mean I used to have fun RPing stupid stuff with NPC.

BUT

The thing is, imagine if you RP-ed an NPC and then another player walks in, would the NPC just randomly disappear or still there? if it's still there, what if that other player made a conflict with the NPC and fight, maybe killed the NPC and then there are police and ambulance and you're just there RPing the NPC? or maybe you're the one that got robbed in front of the NPC? and what happened next? would the NPC fight the robber? I don't know I might be just overthinking this. My point is, it's safer to not RP NPC at all. I mean if you're sure that you are actually alone then fine.

 

You're overthinking.

NPCs are at the core of every characters story. Might as well ban most characters which which have stories describing life before Los Santos according to your logic. Nobody RPed your mother, nobody RPed your father, nobody RPed your teacher... but your character is here and has had those interactions and even still do. What I'm saying there's a border to which NPCs are to be RPed. If you ignore this border, you're breaking common sense rules and powergame rules and so on. You probably shouldn't RP NPCs in public spaces but calling your NPC grandma for some exposition and character development is a great idea.

 

Don't look for problem where there isn't one. I've been called out on RPing NPCs for passive experience and in return I call those people out for driving a 200 k car without a house or a job.

 

Edited by McCatalyst
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The core issue with role-playing NPC's, to me, is that it draws role-play away from another, and also does, by definition, 'powergame' a scenario that either does not or could not exist on the server. I could not, as an extreme example, role-play obtaining the parts to build a nuclear device from an NPC for multiple reasons: there is no 'nuclear device' item in the server; there are no factions or role-players which provide this sort of role-play; and no matter how well I effectuate this role-play, it will always be decidedly one-sided due to the lack of outside resistance preventing me from achieving this goal (of which I am the sole proponent and creator of). The lack of script giving me rules to abide by is key to this.

 

Yet I mostly want to return to that first point -- drawing role-play away from others -- as the most salient. @MkLvn's example is a rather benign storekeeper in a shop. Nobody is 'affected' by this role-play in a negative sense, but it does have an effect on role-players as this is an interaction which is easily achievable through many existing role-played businesses run and staffed by active role-players. Role-playing an NPC in this scenario removes the potential for role-play from another, store-based role-player. It's not a question of intent -- be it malicious or otherwise -- because this is the result. @MkLvn won't have to enter another store to role-play making this purchase, because he's already done it through an NPC. The sum is less role-play shared through and involving other role-players.

 

Taking this to its limit, the question that gets posed is "Why role-play with anybody?" Ostensibly, you can role-play an enemy gang which is only NPC's, you could role-play mechanics which are also NPC's, ad infinitum, to the point where the entire purpose of role-play, which is one of multi-player-controlled character-driven interactions, is entirely undercut. It's nigh-impossible to draw up a list of what we could consider 'acceptable' NPC role-play, as it would involve a massive number of checks and balances that would be difficult to enforce from a pragmatic point of view. It's easier altogether to simply make NPC role-play verboten and restrict players to committing and to participating in the available role-play of others.

Edited by Exploits
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4 minutes ago, Exploits said:

The core issue with role-playing NPC's, to me, is that it draws role-play away from another, and does, by definition, 'powergame' a scenario that either does not or could not exist on the server. I could not, as an extreme example, role-play obtaining the parts to build a nuclear device from an NPC for multiple reasons: there is no 'nuclear device' item in the server; there are no factions or role-players which provide this sort of role-play; and no matter how well I effectuate this role-play, it will always be decidedly one-sided due to the lack of outside resistance preventing me from achieving this goal (of which I am the sole proponent and creator of). The lack of script giving me rules to abide by is key to this.

 

Yet I mostly want to return to that first point -- drawing role-play away from others -- as the most salient. @MkLvn's example is a rather benign storekeeper in a shop. Nobody is 'affected' by this role-play in a negative sense, but it does have an effect on role-players as this is an interaction which is easily achievable through many existing role-played businesses run and staffed by active role-players. Role-playing an NPC in this scenario removes the potential for role-play from another, store-based role-player. It's not a question of intent -- be it malicious or otherwise -- because this is the result. @MkLvn won't have to enter another store to role-play making this purchase, because he's already done it through an NPC. The sum is less role-play shared through and involving other role-players.

 

Taking this to its limit, the question that gets posed is "Why role-play with anybody?" Ostensibly, you can role-play an enemy gang which is only NPC's, you could role-play mechanics which are also NPC's, ad infinitum, to the point where the entire purpose of role-play, which is one of player-controlled character-driven interactions, is entirely undercut. It's nigh-impossible to draw up a list of what we could consider 'acceptable' NPC role-play, as it would involve a massive number of checks and balances that would be difficult to enforce from a pragmatic point of view. It's easier altogether to simply make NPC role-play verboten and restrict players to the committing of role-play with others.

No.

Maybe he RPed the NPC because there were no people working at 24/7s. Or there were in areas where this type of RP is unrealistic. 

 

People should be able to distinguish powergame from passive RP. If you can't make the difference then how did you even last this long in the server. 

 

Is it better to do some passive RP with NPCs to establish your character or to "afk" until you run in to someone? I think it's quite clear which is a better option.

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2 hours ago, McCatalyst said:

 

Is it better to do some passive RP with NPCs to establish your character or to "afk" until you run in to someone? I think it's quite clear which is a better option.

This isn't a feast-or-famine scenario. As the core of my argument states, the main issue I have is that turning to NPC role-play pulls it from somebody else who would otherwise be willing and able to participate. There's still plenty of other things you can role-play -- such as role-playing that stores are currently closed and you're still in need of the item, doing so at a later time.

2 hours ago, McCatalyst said:

Or there were in areas where this type of RP is unrealistic.

So ... like powergaming.

Edited by Exploits
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If there is nowhere open that could cater to the roleplay, such as in the scenario at the LTD, then I think it should be allowed.  As others have stated, as long as you aren't having any sort of advantage in the situation I think it just adds immersion and depth. 

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I don't think the "taking roleplay away from others" argument is valid though. 

In my case (the example in the main post), this actually created roleplay for others. The whole scene stemmed from my character trying to buy cigarettes by the same NPC that has worked at the 24/7 store for awhile, being denied, and then going back to my friends (yes, friends as in real players I roleplay with) and telling them what happened. That turned into one of the older characters telling me to go back to the store and use his name and the NPC would then agree to sell the cigarettes knowing I was with said older character.

In my case, not allowing me to roleplay the NPC would not be reason enough to break my immersion and travel across the city just to buy cigarettes and roleplay with a player owned store. My character is a 14 year old from the ghetto and troubled youths getting involved in gangs rarely leave their neighborhood much less travel across the city for any reason whatsoever, let alone just to get cigarettes.

This all comes back to adding depth to roleplay. Not forcing someone to break immersion just to roleplay with a real person halfway across the city.
 

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