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Making Gun Shot Wound roleplay more enjoyable - but how?


Cobra

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1 minute ago, Duke said:

I'm tired of the "it's a game it's meant to be fun" argument. Go on GTA V online if you wanna die and respawn.

 

This is a supposedly heavy RP server where you portray a real life person, this is the game, people should have to take time to tend to and recover from severe injuries, not walk it off as soon as FD drop you off at the hospital. Forcing realism is what makes heavy RP more fun. If not then this isn't the game for you really.

So why not make every death a permanent one? Why not introduce tax filing like properly? Why not program a random chance to contract cancer and lose your character simply because of bad luck? 

 

I assume because it's a game and there's no point in making it so realistic that it stops to be fun? Using your argument - why don't you just do your real life if it's max realism you want? Maybe playing a game isn't the right thing for you to do if you want the most realistic environment possible - because you only get that in the real world ^^ 

 

But let me rephrase it for you then. "It's a HOBBY it's meant to be fun!". No criminal incentive = no police incentive = way less FD incentive = civilian roleplay before all else. If this was where the fun is to be had we wouldn't have sophisticated drug and gun systems, we would have more sophisticated civilian systems. 

 

I do not know what you roleplay as but I bet it's not as a nine to fiver employee that comes home to his kids and watches TV to wind out from a stressful work day. That's what 90 percent of us would be stuck roleplaying if it truely was about the most realism possible. 

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Just now, Coni said:

So why not make every death a permanent one? Why not introduce tax filing like properly? Why not program a random chance to contract cancer and lose your character simply because of bad luck? 

 

I assume because it's a game and there's no point in making it so realistic that it stops to be fun? Using your argument - why don't you just do your real life if it's max realism you want? Maybe playing a game isn't the right thing for you to do if you want the most realistic environment possible - because you only get that in the real world ^^ 

 

But let me rephrase it for you then. "It's a HOBBY it's meant to be fun!". No criminal incentive = no police incentive = way less FD incentive = civilian roleplay before all else. If this was where the fun is to be had we wouldn't have sophisticated drug and gun systems, we would have more sophisticated civilian systems. 

 

I do not know what you roleplay as but I bet it's not as a nine to fiver employee that comes home to his kids and watches TV to wind out from a stressful work day. That's what 90 percent of us would be stuck roleplaying if it truely was about the most realism possible. 

Because all of the things you just said are either forcing an action onto a character, wouldn't fit with the current economy/makeup of the server or are just something people wouldn't know how to roleplay. 

 

If you want to RP cancer, go for it, on your logic would you recommend police stop actually jailing people? No because there needs to be a level of realism and something that makes people reluctant to make certain choices. 

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13 minutes ago, Coni said:

I do not see in my character being imprisonment me as a player being punished. To me the first and most important consideration should be - does this provide roleplay? And as long as it does, players have to deal with situations that provide roleplay even if it's not the kind they expected. When I try to do a drug deal and get kidnapped thats not RP I would want to do (well I do but some people wouldnt). But its still RP, it gives my character something to tell and to experience. You make new connections in prison or chat up a cute nurse in the hospital. You meet an injured russian crime lord or another gang leader in the prison and create new connections. 

 

As long as it's roleplay, I don't mind if people have to do the part of it that is less enjoyable. Some of the greatest roleplay can be done in prison due to the close quarters, the high tense race relations between prison gangs and the general dynamic of being caged in close together. LS:RP currently has very active prison gangs, to the point that one even got made official by a friend of mine. It's fun as hell and I'd love to see my non racist caucasian biker struggle with the race dynamics of a prison system. 

 

But as I imagine prison rn means sitting alone in a yard waiting for a timer to run out. That obviously is just occupying my PC and hardware performance and not really me participating on a RP server. 

 

I do get your point though and that was an issue that already persisted in SA:MP. It's easier to get killed than to be imprisoned. I just don't know how to re-educate one playerbase without forcing excessive downsides on the other. Maybe make /acceptdeath cost you 10% of your bank account. This would pain everyone equally as someone doing this shit with 1m on his bank account would lose 100k for it. 

 

I just wouldn't know how to avoid making people lose that cash for accidents or bugs but I guess that's what refund reports are for. People who act like you displayed usually have personal gain as a higher priority than RP. I think the consequence should therefore be attacking the persons gains and not the persons RP capability. 

I also have a thread dedicated to deaths in particular and absolutely nobody cared about their money, instead their characters and that's practically what was in LS:RP was hospital bills.. didn't deter anyone albeit it wasn't 10% i really don't think it'd matter anyway. 

 

Criminal role play is super stale and for the most part, so is legal role play, except for cops who get to look forward to high speed pursuit chases and criminal shoot outs while locking players up in a cell for a set duration. Drugs in their current state are worthless, the server doesn't even have MDMA or other drugs that would fit perfectly in to the endless night cycle that is clubs on gta world. Injuries mean nothing and /acceptdeath allows you to get away with pretty much whatever you want and continue to shoot up and do whatever it is when realistically you aren't going to catch a lot of street gang bangers with more than a handful of bodies. It's no wonder FD complains because on top of players deciding their fate, they have nothing interesting to work with and there's a lot more i could touch on but my point is:

 

Sure there are down sides to enforcing perma deaths but going in to further detail would just cause me to repeat myself but what i'll write is it doesn't have to be a one time you're out deal, but back to the point i'm trying to make is that there are also down sides, personally in my opinion, there's more down sides to how it is now, and it's not going to be perfect but it will expand the dynamics of role play, pose greater risks and liability, and the focus should be on making FD more enjoyable, making deaths and criminal activities more suspenseful, making drugs worthwhile and introducing other drugs that aren't even in the server yet, and more. 

 

Right now in its current state it's very limited.

1 minute ago, Coni said:

I do not know what you roleplay as but I bet it's not as a nine to fiver employee that comes home to his kids and watches TV to wind out from a stressful work day. That's what 90 percent of us would be stuck roleplaying if it truely was about the most realism possible. 

No, because in role play you aren't role playing yourself. That's pretty much the entire point of role play, it allows you to be something you're not but surely there are people that do role play this already on the server. 

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18 minutes ago, Duke said:

Because all of the things you just said are either forcing an action onto a character, wouldn't fit with the current economy/makeup of the server or are just something people wouldn't know how to roleplay. 

 

If you want to RP cancer, go for it, on your logic would you recommend police stop actually jailing people? No because there needs to be a level of realism and something that makes people reluctant to make certain choices. 

No but people should still be free to do crime so cops are free to jail people. Cops and Robbers was and has always been a major part of Roleplay communities around Grand Theft Auto games. It's in the name for christ sake. 

 

What makes Roleplay around these criminal activities so engaging (to come back to that GTA Online comment) is that you get to roleplay everything around such a person too. You get to portray a drug dealer that is in a shootout as a man who just tries to get by on the daily. Who suffers from unemployment every day, bill pressure. Who is introduced to similar criminals and they start upping each other up to do crime in order to combat poverty. That's what makes it so attractive. You get to do the "engine fun" stuff like fight and illegal shit while still being able to fully flesh out a character in the process and give him a reason for all this. 

 

The only issue is participating in these activities without facing the music such as injuries and prison. All I am advocating for is not to just introduce time punishments such as making someones character not playable for a week, lol. What's the end goal here? Discourage shootouts? Discourage suicide commandos to avoid punishment? Encourage more injury diversity for FD? All those things need different solutions. 

 

@1357

You do not lose any gain when dieing. Namechange and all that. You lose character development. You lose roleplay progress. You create a hull of figures that are not fleshed out since their lifespan is limited by a random number. Obviously Police and civilians should face the same restrictions as to how many deaths are allowed. This means you discourage police role play just as much as criminal roleplay. Do you discourage unrealistic behavior that people apply to avoid jailtime or deeper loss? No. 

 

What needs to be discouraged is non-sense. Suicidal behavior in shootouts to avoid consequences like jailtime. Stale injury roleplay for FD to avoid longer "unwanted" roleplay. "Shoot first, ask later" Behavior. 

 

I do not see the solution in permadeath. But why not increace the /acceptdeath cooldown from 5 Minutes to 2-6 hours? You speeded or climbed like a monkey and fell? See you in 6 hours. You got shot at and want to roleplay your death? See you in 12 hours. Make it more drastic and put a 48 hour cooldown on it. You can log in for 2 days and hope someone finds you and calls a hospital on you or you do the PK but gotta stay out for 2 play-days.

 

This would in the end lock out people for 1-2 days max if they refuse to engage in FD roleplay. FD roleplay would always seem as the more beneficial route for players who want to get back into roleplaying their every day life and in return the FD would get more willing people. 

 

Add a injury system that display which body parts where damaged how and you got enough to up the FD roleplay by a big chunk without having to sacrifice other playstyles playability. 

 

EDIT:

 

As to people going back to being a gang bang thug after injuries. Add a system that makes you unable to perform fighting actions such as holding guns or punching for a certain amount of time after being fixed up by the FD / doing /acceptdeath. Maybe they cant even drive cars. But they can still engage in conversational roleplay, be around their friends / family whatever and generally participate. Are also weaker targets if they dare to stand back out on the corner in this state. 

 

There is so much that can be done but it should always be done with empathy for ALL participating sides. 

Edited by Coni
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if you choose not to rp gunshot wounds, you're surrounded by the wrong people. complaining about it won't solve anything, you have to do it yourself, and influence others to do it as well. factions are literaly the biggest thing that influences people to roleplay, although most of these factions are jokes so... take it how you will.

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I think it's happening because it's being "roboFD" or some thing like that ?

Every medic doing the same /me's and /do's so it's like... "Shit what a boring RP going to be now..."

I know that the medics don't have much to do and that's what they supposed and being teached in the academy but sadly I have no good idea how to make this kind of RP to be a fun one.

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1 hour ago, Coni said:

 

The injury information already exists to the extent of which body area was hit (arm, leg, head, torso) but it's extremely basic, while what i suggested is to expand and make it more complex. So not only does it show if the arm was hit, but whether or not the brachial artery was struck. This would greatly shift the severity of the situation and dynamics. Really, FD honestly needs more script support and there needs to be a way to make players feel compelled in trying to survive as opposed to immediately going into /acceptdeath and that comes with finding ways to penalize players for dying. Nobody likes to die and that's understandable, i don't either because dying is practically equal to losing but right now dying is a way to prevent and escape ic penalties which is why there needs to be some form of ooc penalty to discourage this.

 

With that being said, it would be interesting to see players at risk of bleeding out while again depending on the severity. It could be made so that players can turn their shirt into a temporary bandage to constrict the wound and try to slow or stabilize their bleeding. If it's severe enough to where a major artery, blood vessel was struck then it would require paramedics and with paramedics comes at the cost of them being legally bound to inform law enforcement in the hypothetical scenario that it's a gun shot wound and that opens up an array of other problems like questioning on how you were shot and so and so forth, possibly being linked up as a person in question of crime and doing time after you're patched up.

 

Right now a player prevents all of this because they have the power to choose their fate and whether they have 60 pulse, or they have 0 pulse. So essentially, giving FD more script support, finding ways to penalize player deaths and honestly a lot more than this.

1 hour ago, Coni said:

1: No but people should still be free to do crime so cops are free to jail people. Cops and Robbers was and has always been a major part of Roleplay communities around Grand Theft Auto games. It's in the name for christ sake. 

 

2: The only issue is participating in these activities without facing the music such as injuries and prison. All I am advocating for is not to just introduce time punishments such as making someones character not playable for a week, lol. What's the end goal here? Discourage shootouts? Discourage suicide commandos to avoid punishment? Encourage more injury diversity for FD? All those things need different solutions. 

 

 

1: I'm not sure cops and robbers has been a major part of role play communities but what i am sure of is that this is a role play server and if players want C&R there's servers dedicated solely to cops and robbers. But yes, there's a huge reason why the PD has a higher influx of players compared to FD and that's because the faction has all the fun meanwhile FD is limited in commands and there's hardly any purpose on the server for them, which is pretty sad.

 

2: I would say the end goal is going to be this and try to bear with me.

 

If a player does end up having to /acceptdeath what penalties could they receive? I suggest perma deaths because it opens up locked or otherwise nonexistent areas in role play. I would be interested to read how you argue this when i say that death absolutely does not exist in the form that it should. It's a problem and it's true, it's something we generally do not role play, because it does not exist other than players choosing to CK themselves on their own terms.. but it also allows players to act out in unrealistic manners that otherwise are viewed as completely acceptable in the current state with no risk. Nobody really cares about losing guns, nobody cares about losing a bit of cash. If anything people care about their development, their street cred.

 

Death & Grief. You don't see gang members role playing the deaths of their own members or their oppositions because everyone simply gets in to a shoot out with an opposing gang member, dies, respawns, continues the same fucking shit and it is not only the most mind numbing and ridiculous shit but it accomplishes nothing worthwhile other than being able to kill that same person over and over again. But everything changes when that certain member that you cared about dies, you genuinely enjoyed the company of that character and now he's gone and nothing you can do will bring him back. But what a player can and would do is probably act out how most people in well established gangs would and perform a retaliation or get back for that member, put them on even ground. Give real reasons for real wars with real rivals. Make deaths feel genuine and make that gang feel what it's like to lose a member of their own.

 

It opens up a deeper level of bragging rights. Take for example, you smoke an opposing member in a gang.. but what comes out of that? Nothing. Because you know and he knows he's just going to respawn and that's going to be the end of that. How can you brag about killing someone who isn't actually dead? How can you grieve over someone who isn't actually dead? How do you provide a funeral for someone who is not actually dead? These aspects and more are missing from role play because the cycle of life and death do not exist.

 

It expands on role play and makes things much more interesting. Players no longer have unlimited lives, everyone dies but what are you able to accomplish in that life? It will encourage second thoughts, it will make players rethink their plans. Gang banging and being a shooter now comes at a risk, and you aren't going to want to be that person that gets caught and dies, put on a shirt while the opposing gang brags about your death and taunts your gang. But you'll be viewed as a god in the streets if you're catching your gangs oppositions bodies, just how it is in real life and especially if you haven't died, but that means now treading carefully.

 

News stations reporting gang related deaths and crime. Watching the news and seeing that name that you've despised for so long found dead in the streets, no longer exists and is no longer a threat to you. This would work perfectly with a body script that is supposedly coming in to the server and help with leads on forensics.

 

And at the very least, make this for illegal factions. If players want to have the fun of shooting at other players, pose a higher risk. I seen that it was removed, but bring it back. The only people that would be against this are the people who just want to have a RDM fest. If players want to role play gang banging lol and shoot at other gang members, let them, at a risk. I have an illegal character and spend most of my time on him and even i advocate for this. It's not fun to shoot at people knowing nothing really comes out of it, especially the same characters over and over again but that's just how it works right now.

 

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The FD is not always there, though. 

 

What about those moments? What about players that don't play during peek times in the FD? Do I have to fear for my character based on server activity? That's just not a sustainable solution and thats why while I am with you that players should be compelled to need medical support over /acceptdeath, I still think a deathcounter is just not the solution. Those things were tried in the very early days of GTA RP and removed due to causing too much trouble. 

 

Too many reports will flood in about death counter resets due to glitches or time zone dependant lack of activity. The FD will get to eat shit for not responding fast enough to all situations occuring, players will start to downplay all their injuries to an extend or to be frank will have their character be murdered just for being in the weaker party of a conflict. 

 

What about those situations? Where a 20 player faction just gangs up on a smaller one. Combine that with concentrating attacks on low activity times and you basically gave big and rich players the capability to a.) bully you into inactivity as you cant play during your prefered time or b.) CK a whole gang over time. 

 

That's not fun. As "hardcore" as it may be. Neither the economy nor the activity in the FD is stable and hardcore enough to sustain those permanent results. 

 

A.) You introduce a prison-like system in the hospital where each /acceptdeath warrants a couple hours in the hospital. The compelling side to FD treatment is that the time could be drastically lower if the wounds were treated by RP. Either 24 hours for /acceptdeath or 6-12 hours for FD RP. 

 

B.) You introduce financial (AND scaling) punishments together with time penalties after doing an /acceptdeath. Vehicles that were involved in a chase should be impounded and and/or scrapped at a certain point regardless if the person died. Why? The license plate was still involved in the chase. Gun permits should be deleted. Why? The registered gun was still involved in the shootout. 

 

Fear to come online is a shit thing to introduce imo.

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Just now, Coni said:

 

 

If the FD isn't there to save you, you bleed out and die. Simple. It doesn't have to be complicated. It's just how it is irl, if you aren't saved within a certain period of time you die. If they show up and are able to save you, then it goes from there. Medics aren't always there to save people irl either, sometimes they show up too late.

 

I'm not trying to make it hardcore, i'm trying to make it so that deaths mean something while there still being opportunity for the player to save themselves based on their RNG. Shot in the head, you're likely dead. Shot in the arm, hope it went through and didn't hit a major blood vessel. While there would be an increase of players who may have a problem with their death, if its due to a bug they will be revived and everything will be fine otherwise a quote from an admin on my previous thread:


"Many of us would happily enforce this" in regards to taking on more work to push something similar to this on the server.

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Except IRL is not based on player activity and living ist not based on entertainment. I know I would see no point in trying to portray realistic character development when the time I get to spend with this character is put completely into the hands of other people. Also becomes frustrating for less wealthy players who can't namechange out of losing their wealth while IRL wealthier people can just namechange after the CK counter is reached to keep their shit. 

 

Big and wealthy people get to bully smaller factions - no real faction can develop if their natural antagonist decides to CK them out of existance. In the end it comes down to the same reasons why we don't jail players for IRL time (we rp each RL day as a ingame day after all). 

 

I see no point in further entertaining this idea tbh. Im outtie on this one. 

 

 

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