PK and CK

[Engelbert]

11 minutes ago, 1357 said:

I am still curious which servers may have tried this in the past and failed to succeed.. and even then to my knowledge.. nothing is proven to not work until there is absolutely every possible well thought out idea, outcome and scenario to try and make it work. This isn't to insinuate that half ass ideas should immediately be placed into the game to test and see how things work.. but to think of something that we're confident in, instead, and then use that as a base to progress with.. move forward and to continue to think and build well thought out complex systems.

 

 

You know, how is it. It looks good on paper, it runs well on countless  simulations, buuut it's a disaster during first live session.

And this rule sadly applies to nearly anything humankind ever invented,(normally however, anyone coming afterwards to the afterparty picks up the remains and forge them into what they were supposed to be in beginning and it works.). That said the system would work, though it requires some new rules being implemented as well as staff being focused solely on picking up even the slightest deviations from intial concept. Which once again brings us to people. It requires people to follow the line. And many of us of course don't. As for me, my characters sort of die every few months, when I get either fed up with roleplaying or tired of it. That's when I simply shut down that small mainframe of mine and don't touch it for a half a year or so. I tend to come back refreshed either next year or after six months at least. When many things are changed and my characters rise up once again into a new world, with only few people they knew left or none. Which makes my phones filled with contacts that are no longer active pretty much, but then again I normally keep to myself walking unseen among others.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Engelbert

[Bospy]

49 minutes ago, 1357 said:

There are a lot of games as a matter of fact that force you to start to over once you die, it just caters to a specific amount of people albeit it doesn't appeal to everyone does not make it a bad concept.

 

I am still curious which servers may have tried this in the past and failed to succeed.. and even then to my knowledge.. nothing is proven to not work until there is absolutely every possible well thought out idea, outcome and scenario to try and make it work. This isn't to insinuate that half ass ideas should immediately be placed into the game to test and see how things work.. but to think of something that we're confident in, instead, and then use that as a base to progress with.. move forward and to continue to think and build well thought out complex systems.

 

If this were to be made to work:

• We would need stricter rules.
• Specific measures in place to ensure that nobody is dying and losing all of their progress over the slightest incident.
• Multiple well thought out systems. As a few quick examples: New characters possibly restricted from holding firearms until X amount of hours to prevent people from abusing how easy it is to make a new character. And possibly a 3-step system that subsequently leads to a player getting CK'd.
• Crime role play that involves another players death would be required to be well documented from the perpetrators PoV. This means the incident that gave them what they believed to be good reasoning to kill.. and for the player that died will have automated detailed information on their death such as the player that killed them, time and date and so on and so forth.
• And so many more possibilities and ways.

With this change encourages and promotes more methodical crime, and it adds a deeper layer to relationship building and bonding.

 

Why i feel it could work differently with our server compared to others is because i can almost bet it was half ass done. I can see this turning into a total disaster just like the rest of you without anything put in place and the right kinks worked out. One aspect that separates a lot of servers from ours is the staffing and management.. this alone plays an important role and becomes a deciding factor to how well this can work out.

Many places on other platforms have tried this. Granted, with much smaller populations. It has varying success based on the ruleset. There is always controversy, though, because many people become WAYYYYY too attached to their characters and they end up making 10 page long threads disputing the CK. Particularly, I remember a couple servers I played on Garrysmod (hardcore RP) that had rulesets like this and it was abused. One of my characters was irrevocably killed simply for mentioning a bounty against another character by the server owner.

 

Imagine the controversy of maybe ten threads about people complaining or appealing a CK. Magnify that - 200 people rather than a population of 80. It's a massive amplification in controversy.

 

Like you said, there has to be incredibly clear cut rules even if this is ever tried. I approve of the concept of requesting a CK against another player - particularly, if they are troublesome. However, I really don't want to spend money to change my character's anme if they die.

[DeadlyMask]

On 5/25/2019 at 9:21 PM, 1357 said:

There are a lot of games as a matter of fact that force you to start to over once you die, it just caters to a specific amount of people albeit it doesn't appeal to everyone does not make it a bad concept.

 

I am still curious which servers may have tried this in the past and failed to succeed.. and even then to my knowledge.. nothing is proven to not work until there is absolutely every possible well thought out idea, outcome and scenario to try and make it work. This isn't to insinuate that half ass ideas should immediately be placed into the game to test and see how things work.. but to think of something that we're confident in, instead, and then use that as a base to progress with.. move forward and to continue to think and build well thought out complex systems.

 

If this were to be made to work:

• We would need stricter rules.
• Specific measures in place to ensure that nobody is dying and losing all of their progress over the slightest incident.
• Multiple well thought out systems. As a few quick examples: New characters possibly restricted from holding firearms until X amount of hours to prevent people from abusing how easy it is to make a new character. And possibly a 3-step system that subsequently leads to a player getting CK'd.
• Crime role play that involves another players death would be required to be well documented from the perpetrators PoV. This means the incident that gave them what they believed to be good reasoning to kill.. and for the player that died will have automated detailed information on their death such as the player that killed them, time and date and so on and so forth.
• And so many more possibilities and ways.

With this change encourages and promotes more methodical crime, and it adds a deeper layer to relationship building and bonding.

 

Why i feel it could work differently with our server compared to others is because i can almost bet it was half ass done. I can see this turning into a total disaster just like the rest of you without anything put in place and the right kinks worked out. One aspect that separates a lot of servers from ours is the staffing and management.. this alone plays an important role and becomes a deciding factor to how well this can work out.

This would quickly turn the server into Owlgaming, which has what, 50 players during peak times? Maybe 60? It's not worth it, I like the 250+ playerbase and I am sure everyone here does too.

[sparky]

On 5/25/2019 at 6:14 PM, Engelbert said:

 Because people normally come here to escape real life, in real life there is no pk, just a ck, there is no load previous save if you fuck up and nothing can be taken back once it's out there. People do not want such in games.

Although I agree with you, that this is a game and should be treated as such, fuck ups are what make this game fun. Fucks up make roleplay a lot more interesting and have less consequences than irl.

[Engelbert]

5 hours ago, shotgun_sam said:

Although I agree with you, that this is a game and should be treated as such, fuck ups are what make this game fun. Fucks up make roleplay a lot more interesting and have less consequences than irl.

I am not saying it is not, just...for some people, the time invested into a character development and money earning for example, could be more valuable, than to someone else. Such people won't agree with a CK. But then again, such people normally are nowhere near criminal roleplay and tend to immerse themselves in "bubble rp".

Edited May 29, 2019 by Engelbert

[Gall]

After having read every comment and researching from different perspectives, I'll have to support the idea of deaths leading to CKs only.

 

Reason being, the pros outweigh the cons by a LARGE margin. With this system being deployed, every player out there is going to  hold regard for their lives as they would IRL. You wouldn't see cops walking through gang territory on their own, people speeding past city works 150 m/ph, etc. People would genuinely be paranoid when roaming alone during the night.

 

It truly brings adrenaline and personality to your character. People would think twice before being all provacative for the sake of it. It would bring out different varities of roleplay such as extortion, protection, etc. People nowadays would end up being provacative and do their very best to get PKed rather than getting extorted on a weekly basis. I've seen it several times.

 

With that being said, administrators will have more work in place, yes. Regarding CK appeals, all that jazz. I'm certain they'd be willing to take up that burden for the sake of drastically improving roleplay quality. Every character ends up with 300K, to cry about losing your assets is simply absurd. If you've lost millions, so be it. Think twice about your actions next time, develop a new character and hook yourself on to it.

 

To those saying many would get killed over a petty reason, remember, they risk CK too. It goes both ways, in addition, that's what reports and appeals are for. 3 slots for characters to play on as well! The PK system makes no sense, it encourages poor character portrayal, in a sense.

 

Finally, you'd see civilian and business roleplay more often. I'm certain many would pull back from the criminal aspect of roleplay and experiment new genres. This change would be revolutionary, and would filter the community as it should be.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Gall

[Queen]

While I certainly see the benefits of such a proposed system, I personally don't think this is something you can just suddenly throw at the community without losing a good chunk of players. The main problem is that it's essentially impossible to predict what will happen if this is implemented, because no one here can tell the future (I think). I could speak of past experiences where something like this was implemented, but I'm almost entirely certain the effects won't be anywhere near the same with such a large, consistent population.

 

There are a good amount of people who vehemently disagree with this system, and I don't really think it's very fair to force something with such far-reaching consequences upon them without ample time to adjust.

[Vash Baldeus]

On 5/23/2019 at 1:26 PM, eyebrows said:

I’m all for it. I’ve bordered on forcing two CK wars this month alone because PK’s had ruined all development and continuity within the community/factions I was dealing with. This was then ended with people ”RK’ing” because they spawn back in and get involved all over again. 

 

Endless cycle of bullshit - that’s all PK’s are, especially where factions are concerned. I also think the tables need to be turned on LEO factions. There’s a strong attitude of forcing CK’s on criminals who force death without dying scriptwise (which I agree with) but there’s never role reversal. Come into a gang neighbourhood on your solo patrol and talk shit? Better take that CK.

 

Unfortunately I don’t see it happening any time soon. The community is so divided over what makes high standard roleplay that we could never agree a set of rules around it. This is why we have the CK applications. 

You mean "Better be ready to receive a CK!".

Edited June 5, 2019 by Vash Baldeus

[Gall]

7 hours ago, Pillowy said:

While I certainly see the benefits of such a proposed system, I personally don't think this is something you can just suddenly throw at the community without losing a good chunk of players. The main problem is that it's essentially impossible to predict what will happen if this is implemented, because no one here can tell the future (I think). I could speak of past experiences where something like this was implemented, but I'm almost entirely certain the effects won't be anywhere near the same with such a large, consistent population.

 

There are a good amount of people who vehemently disagree with this system, and I don't really think it's very fair to force something with such far-reaching consequences upon them without ample time to adjust.

Then again, the chunk of players you're losing are those who are too fond of their money and assets, over their character development. I don't see that as a bad thing. And how do you suggest we "give them ample time to adjust" to this system? We'll have to start somewhere, no?

[Sergi]

The issue is people not wanting want to lose their assets as someone mentioned above, or their "character development", the best solution I could think of is, in case there's two factions who are constantly engaging in shootouts and beef, force a CK war over them, since that's where the main issue lies, when gangs keep shooting at each other and essentially RK'ing on a daily basis.  Not only that but that'd also encourage people to stop being so brain-dead and actually avoid conflict instead of instigating trouble 24/7.

HOWEVER, I doubt removing PKs and enforcing CKs would ever work on a roleplay server, be it heavy roleplay or not, however, I think if FM / PLM supervised the scenarios where a CK could perfectly apply (say you instigated something and ended up dead) could work, however, I don't think GTA W currently has a proper infraestructure to support this.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Sergi