PK and CK

[Nervous]

5 minutes ago, DeadlyMask said:

I wouldn't agree with something like this at all, for the simple fact that many players will not like it.

Imagine becoming a well known and powerful character and then getting CK'ed, would you really start all over if you've spent 5-6 months developing that character? 

That's life. If you're smart about it you'll live longer, just like in real life. 

 

Having an all powerful character loses all meaning when no one can kill you. 

[DeadlyMask]

Just now, Ethanol said:

That's life. If you're smart about it you'll live longer, just like in real life. 

 

Having an all powerful character loses all meaning when no one can kill you. 

I agree with you Ethanol, but we have to think about the server as well, even though some players would like CKs to be more frequent, we know that it's a risky move and it has the potential to not pay off the way it would be expected to, right?

[Marcus.]

Going with the main argument here: "PK is an outdated system for an outdated platform" allow me to spin this way further and argue that even CKs are an outdated system for an outdated platform. These are all terms, and systems that have been coined on so many different games, platforms, that have little to no meaning. Even the "repercussions" are little, since in essence you can just continue your old character with a new name.

 

In a perfect world, in a perfect system, there'd not be a need to issue or insofar as create terminology like PKs or CKs and everyone can continue their way with their avatars without having to worry about outside interference and everyone adhere to rules and only act upon real impact(s) on their mind. The proposal to replace PKs entirely with CKs in accordance to my first statement is null and void due to it only replacing one flawed system with another.

 

What should be discussed is how to create new standards regarding matters of death on a role-playing game instead of relying on systems and terms that have been proven to be outdated and flawed.

 

The proposed way of dealing with death is one-sided, non-thought out and even illogical to the extend of understanding that GTA-World whilst (trying to) emulating (emulate) certain aspects of a real life is not real life, the lack of time and age is one, the lack of a common consensus another. If it were to entirely emulate real life, the need to introduce RNG would be necessary (humans can die at any one point in their life without outside interference, sudden brain-death), as well as the introduction of a real concept of time and what has to be considered a year in an avatar's life and thus age one up accordingly and increase the RNG rate of possible malfunctions. Furthermore with this, players should not be allowed to "create" their avatars but be assigned, name, skills, looks, gender, et cetera. Hopefully people here catch the drift of where this would lead.

 

@Nervous has made it clear that this is not a test-lab and it is clear, at least to me, that there is a huge split in the community regarding this particular topic and how it should be handled. Instead what should be done is drive a discussion towards innovation of the system and attempt to abolish old and flawed standards. What can be done to make what has previously been known as a PK/CK have more impact whilst not driving away large amounts of players and where the community as a whole can reach a consensus? Asset (monetary/long-term/current) removal? I doubt it, forced time in an adminjail-esque prison? Nope. Frankly I don't have an answer or even a proper suggestion for this, but I am certain if the staff team were to create a discussion about it and moderate it, there could be many fruitful suggestions to come out of it.

 

 

[SpartanofSparta]

As a member of the FD, we get called out to too many calls where people are there, surrounded by PD, dying immediately to a single GSW. It's not for any investment in roleplay, they just do /do No pulse. Hell, sometimes we get demanded to use the /damage command instead of them actually describing their injuries. They don't want to roleplay their death for any sort of roleplay meaning or depth, they want to roleplay their death because they got caught and it's easier than roleplaying at the station and seeing out their character. They are all perfect criminals who never have been caught and all have these fancy cars because every single time they have been caught, it's a cardiac arrest. They don't even have to have been shot, I've had people going into cardiac arrest from a PD chase when we arrive over a cut on the shoulder. Must've been a heavy flow to loose that much blood.

So, what I propose, as a start, is this.

 

• Intentionally roleplaying your characters death as a result of a Police Department attempted arrest will result in a CK.

The wording may not be perfect and it would probably need some caveats, such as requiring PD to make sufficient attempts to resuscitate or stop your declining physical state, but you get the general idea. There's still many, many loopholes that would need to be filled and probably some punishment that needs to apply for PD at some point as well, but since PD need to respond these situations for a living... Again, it would need plenty of discussion.

[DeadlyMask]

Just now, SpartanofSparta said:

As a member of the FD, we get called out to too many calls where people are there, surrounded by PD, dying immediately to a single GSW. It's not for any investment in roleplay, they just do /do No pulse. Hell, sometimes we get demanded to use the /damage command instead of them actually describing their injuries. They don't want to roleplay their death for any sort of roleplay meaning or depth, they want to roleplay their death because they got caught and it's easier than roleplaying at the station and seeing out their character. They are all perfect criminals who never have been caught and all have these fancy cars because every single time they have been caught, it's a cardiac arrest. They don't even have to have been shot, I've had people going into cardiac arrest from a PD chase when we arrive over a cut on the shoulder. Must've been a heavy flow to loose that much blood.

So, what I propose, as a start, is this.

 

• Intentionally roleplaying your characters death as a result of a Police Department attempted arrest will result in a CK.

The wording may not be perfect and it would probably need some caveats, such as requiring PD to make sufficient attempts to resuscitate or stop your declining physical state, but you get the general idea. There's still many, many loopholes that would need to be filled and probably some punishment that needs to apply for PD at some point as well, but since PD need to respond these situations for a living... Again, it would need plenty of discussion.

So you are essentially forcing players to roleplay surviving, right?

[SpartanofSparta]

3 minutes ago, DeadlyMask said:

So you are essentially forcing players to roleplay surviving, right?

Not in every situation, again, this is only me tossing an idea in the water and seeing if it floats or sinks, but it's well known that if someone has just committed First Degree Murder and they get shot by PD, they're going to roleplay their death. Hell, if they scuffed their knee, they're going to say it gets infected and roleplay their death. It's a well known and well used loophole to avoid any sort of PD punishment and FD is stuck going to these calls and just doing CPR and /do No pulse. They don't want their characters to survive because they don't want the repercussions of being arrested. They just want to respawn at the nearest hospital and walk to the bank, grab another fistful of money and purchase another gun.

 

So, ESSENTIALLY, in some scenarios, that could be considered true, yes, but I don't know how else to close up this gaping loophole without reams and reams of rules.

[A_Acko]

On 5/22/2019 at 11:49 PM, lonex said:

any Joe can just take a gun out and kill you and end a character you put an enormous amount of effort into.

 

There's good reasons why no body implements this system.

 

Exactly this.

[DeadlyMask]

1 hour ago, A_Acko said:

Exactly this.

[Engelbert]

Might I remind people gathered around the campfire, that this is by no means real life. People normally roleplay to listen and live through stories they create or to enjoy stories created by others, Sayings like "it's like in real life" won't get ye anywhere, why? Because people normally come here to escape real life, in real life there is no pk, just a ck, there is no load previous save if you fuck up and nothing can be taken back once it's out there. People do not want such in games.

[1357]

59 minutes ago, Engelbert said:

Might I remind people gathered around the campfire, that this is by no means real life. People normally roleplay to listen and live through stories they create or to enjoy stories created by others, Sayings like "it's like in real life" won't get ye anywhere, why? Because people normally come here to escape real life, in real life there is no pk, just a ck, there is no load previous save if you fuck up and nothing can be taken back once it's out there. People do not want such in games.

There are a lot of games as a matter of fact that force you to start to over once you die, it just caters to a specific amount of people albeit it doesn't appeal to everyone does not make it a bad concept.

 

I am still curious which servers may have tried this in the past and failed to succeed.. and even then to my knowledge.. nothing is proven to not work until there is absolutely every possible well thought out idea, outcome and scenario to try and make it work. This isn't to insinuate that half ass ideas should immediately be placed into the game to test and see how things work.. but to think of something that we're confident in, instead, and then use that as a base to progress with.. move forward and to continue to think and build well thought out complex systems.

 

If this were to be made to work:

• We would need stricter rules.
• Specific measures in place to ensure that nobody is dying and losing all of their progress over the slightest incident.
• Multiple well thought out systems. As a few quick examples: New characters possibly restricted from holding firearms until X amount of hours to prevent people from abusing how easy it is to make a new character. And possibly a 3-step system that subsequently leads to a player getting CK'd.
• Crime role play that involves another players death would be required to be well documented from the perpetrators PoV. This means the incident that gave them what they believed to be good reasoning to kill.. and for the player that died will have automated detailed information on their death such as the player that killed them, time and date and so on and so forth.
• And so many more possibilities and ways.

With this change encourages and promotes more methodical crime, and it adds a deeper layer to relationship building and bonding.

 

Why i feel it could work differently with our server compared to others is because i can almost bet it was half ass done. I can see this turning into a total disaster just like the rest of you without anything put in place and the right kinks worked out. One aspect that separates a lot of servers from ours is the staffing and management.. this alone plays an important role and becomes a deciding factor to how well this can work out.