Jump to content

PK and CK


1357

Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, EDR said:

What you just said right there means absolutely nothing to the subject at hand, your way of implying that we have to "move on" and "evolve" to apparently retain the player base? If anything you'll be driving the playerbase away with your illogical proposition (if it ever goes through). Plus I can't really understand why you had to add the technological advancements in cellphones? Doesn't really relate to the topic, but I digress. There is literally no need to unnecessarily complicate things for the satisfaction of very few individuals in this community and instead look at the broader and more prosperous aspect of keeping the game balanced

 

I understand this is literally just a discussion topic, and nothing has been set in stone aside from hints from administration that this could be looked into, and truthfully speaking I hope something could become of this in terms of reinforcing on the player-kill and character-kill rules and regulations, but not to the extent that you envision the community to become, burdened with the possibility of just having my character permanently killed because it's suddenly a free-for-all server. 

 

I stand firm against your proposition but instead, alternatively, I would suggest for the player-kill and character-kill system to be revised and potentially add criteria to where a players death constitutes for a character-kill, for example a player completely disregarding their life in-character and refusing to comply whilst held at gunpoint, or a fleeing suspect having a high speed crash after a pursuit, just obvious scenarios where the player themselves puts themselves in a predicament where their life is or would be in danger, instead of it being an outright character-kill for any and every death.

 

 

 

The analogy wasn't expressed towards the server, it's more aimed towards your view of: If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

 

Those examples were made to assure you that although something isn't broken.. it will still progress. Phones progress over time. Video Games progress over time. Technology advances over time. Everything progresses, evolves and changes. I cannot imagine the people who invented the current system got it perfect on the first attempt. It likely went through trial and error with the community to figure out that sweet spot.

 

We can do the same thing with this idea.. there is a sweet spot waiting to be identified but how can we find it if we're only focusing on the extremes and the worst case scenarios? Your last paragraph you agree that there is room for change.. great start.

 

I am not saying that it has to be like this or it cannot work.. We as a community could work together to identify the problems, think of solutions to prevent and address those problems and move forward with what can be a great change to the aspect of realism, immersion and better role play overall.

 

Right now PK limits us.. a lot. With only CK it can unlock certain areas of role play that the server has yet to experience.

Edited by 1357
Link to comment

I played in a server with this sort of ruleset for about a year, and the amount of toxicity it introduced into the system was huge, and drove me away to servers like this one.

 

It turned into an OOC chess game, with people rules lawyering back and forth, trying to get the right character motivation to kill someone, vying for the ears of admins to approve the CK. A huge OOC mess of people spiteful against each other, especially among illegal factions who would do this constantly to each other to get the upper hand.

 

Don't like someone OOC? Don't like their RP? Find a reason to CK them. it's really not hard to engineer a reason if you try for a while, criminals can repeatedly target the same person untill they retaliate, legal character or not. What happens if they finally call the cops? Don't give in to your demands? Try to fight back? It just gives you a reason to kill them, which is what you wanted all along.

 

The problem with forcing people to care more by taking away everything they've worked for, is that people end up caring too much. They get a vendetta OOC and devolve into toxicity in appeals, and when all else fails they just end up trying to engineer and plot to kill the person who just killed off their many hours of development because "I'm a dangerous nazi and you called the cops on me." (Like any sane person would)

 

Not to mention when you give this sort of power out to admins, to CK people on the spot, those people who are members of staff or are friends with members of staff get biased results and it's unavoidable. It can be subtle things like faster responses to situations, or just outright ruling in favour of others, it'll happen.

 

People Will abuse the system to strike at people they want gone OOCly,  your whole post seems to revolve around trying to force IC reactions by manipulating people's feelings OOC, which will do much more harm than good. 

" So if you've enjoyed role playing with that character specifically.. you will likely have some sort of sentimental value attached to that player which in return will make you feel a certain type of way or otherwise conflicted with real world results." 

Yeah no, it'll just piss people off, and people will use this fact to just target people they don't like OOC or weaken rival organisations by engineering the RP to lead to a CK or a war. People aren't just going to say "Oh what a shame, I guess that gangbanger killed me for calling his mum fat, darn, time to re-roll!" They'll say: "That fucker, I'll get him CK'ed back for this, come on guys."

 

"Whenever you see a character you've met in a critical state, there is no real emotion. This means, other aspects that relate to real life such as grieving are non existent." 

That's just called Bad roleplaying. You should roleplay sadness, loss, and grief without the OOC influence of "They'll be back later". Also, I've never seen any killers who show an ounce of emotion when killing someone for scratching their car, or apparently selling an xbox.

 

The end result of this change would be a lot of people getting pissed off at each other OOC. People will manipulate this system to kill off all their rivals for good. Barely any criminals roleplay feeling any sort of remorse or hesitation to kill and gladly jump straight to murder, and this system will just reinforce that because now they won't even leave any witnesses. 

 

All the systems in this server get manipulated, just look at construction and how there was a monopoly milking people for hundreds of thousands of dollars for months. Look at how the property system is manipulated by people flipping houses for 100% profit, look at how ads are handled, with people spamming the command every minute to dominate the chatspace. 

 

Not really willing to trust the community with the ability to bump off my character willy-nilly, it gives people too much of a power-trip. It creates Toxicity. I've had a ton of very enjoyable RP without the looming threat of death over my head.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment

I think this would be a way to heavy change. In my opinion such change requires to open a second server. You cant just add this and tell people who worked on their progress that they will loose everything now at the next dead. Imagine someone that worked realy hard since release of this server to get his stuff together. Its like a game developer would change his pvp game to only pve and that isnt what ppl wanted when they decided to start playing this game. The easiest would be if you just go over to a CK server if you like that more. I dont rly understand why you want to change a running system and force ppl to play like you want them to. I dont have anything against CK on dead but if I want this then I go on a CK server and have this server for PK which I prefer more.

 

regards.

Edited by Chipsdose
Link to comment
6 hours ago, Maca said:
7 hours ago, lonex said:

because people usually don't kill someone after having something as a mere vocal argument,

https://www.ajc.com/news/man-shot-death-over-xbox-sale-gone-wrong-wife-says/1M5jjWPdP6olXOrmoQqVUL/

 

This is a common thing in the States. People die over trivial shit and it's a part of every day life.

 

Not going to bother fleshing out a massive post because it'll be ignored anyway. Accept the fact that life (the thing you are roleplaying) has consequences, many of them unfair. There are no protective bubbles around you in real life, they shouldn't be around you here neither.

 

As for the below quote, this isn't even a problem. Most of us would happily enforce this.

In real life I won't be shot for calling someone a thot on Facebook, whereas here it's so common to end up like that. With CKs a thing, people will be even more on the edge and will be even more trigger happy. Sure there would be more fear but there would also be more DM because of it.

 

Not everyone is a good roleplayer, some are even young kids, but they'd be entrusted with the ability to just end my character over a reason they thought was fitting? It will demotivate people to really put any effort in characters they make.

 

People die over trivial things and you hear of them only every once in a while, in a country like the US where there's more than 330 million people. Chances of anything bad happening to you on the street are very small.

 

Here if you just take a walk from one side of LS to another, even while avoiding gang zones, you will most likely end up robbed and possibly shot or stabbed because the person flipped out.

 

On a server where the ratio of criminals is just so much bigger, with a small population, it's never going to work.

 

If we want to talk IC consequences, would you also be fine with your character being arrested for actual months if not years for some trivial things as well? This is a game, not a real life simulator. 

 

 

Link to comment
11 hours ago, Ethanol said:

I agree with you regarding PKs dying as a concept on RP servers (especially this one) however I do not agree with you on the server being defined as heavy, hard, hardcore, husky or any other SAMP era label. 

 

The heavy RP scale is literally meaningless when voice servers where a 12 year old boy RPs as a 56 year old black female drug lord define themselves as one. 

 

Our server is simple a text based RP server with high standards. This assures we're not on some weird scale as other GTA RP servers which no one can define aside from hopefully not being compared to other 'heavy' RP standards servers.

 

ANYWAY, about CKs killing off PKs. 

 

This has to happen on a server like ours. HOPEFULLY we'll become a leading example for other servers who were thinking to adopt a system where PKs are non existent (Unless an admin decided you died due to a bug or whatnot). 

 

Consequences have lost all meaning when PKs were adopted by RP servers. Most people do not care about being threatened. They don't care when you chase them, they don't care about running around with heavy firearms 24/7 and they certainly don't care about going balls deep into any situation with a gun. 

 

You die, you lose a bit of money or your gun at worst so naturally whoever isn't really into portraying their character realistically (which should literally be every player on this server but let's be real, even with FM and PLM around this isn't a perfect server and it never will be) will not think twice before being beaten up or even killed. 

 

This also results in a lot of minor issues which mostly cause players to act like morons ICly based on this OOC barrier which prevents them from dying. 

 

If CKs are adopted INSTEAD of PKs and not as some sort of solution for certain situations, people will suddenly start thinking twice before acting tough, before going balls deep into literally every situation and will generally start showing legit fear of losing their character's life which is what their character should be feeling in most cases. 

 

And if the player doesn't care about being CK'ed? That's great, that's on him ICly. You wanna risk it all? You can and you'll pay for it in most cases which is GREAT because this is how you create a meaningful environment for your character. 

 

Suddenly your friends start dying. People around you suddenly show legit concern when you're about to check out. People actually start planning shit instead of making another video of them shooting someone. 

 

I can promise you I'll do anything and everything I can to adopt CKs as the main death mechanic of this server (with obvious exceptions for bugs and other OOC issues). 

 

In all honesty, I'm glad this is coming from a community member and not only admins. Having players who want to remove dinosaur SAMP systems and OOC barriers which somehow became the norm on most servers and really push realism to its limits is exactly what this server needs. Great fucking idea. 

I agree with everything you wrote, there's one issue though, I've seen plenty of times my friends die cause the game didn't load a tree in time and they crashed it, causing their death.. or a bug that killed them due to desync or what not. I honestly wouldn't implement this until RageMP fixes their sync issues. But that's my honest opinion on the matter.

Link to comment
6 hours ago, hotboy said:

This is simple.

When a player kills another player for a valuable reason, it warrants a CK.

If it is on a cop for a valuable reason then let's make it a rank down.

 

This system could benefits the server's economy by recycling its playerbase and equilibrate the different classes.

+ @1357 benefits/drawbacks are pretty much resuming.

 

 

I don't think you understand what sort of chaos that force-demoting cops that die would cause. It would lead to systematic targeting of the PD to destabilize it, which, putting my other definitely more known feelings for PD and how it is led, would not benefit anybody.

 

One of two things would happen:

People are force demoted and this is enforced, leading to them losing their ranks, their authority and their division. This would cause chaos as people are promoted for a reason, meaning you'd scramble to try and fill that gap so things could continue as normal. This would lead to animosity between people in the department, knowing their rank was given to someone else simply over a coin flip.

 

Or what's more likely to happen is that the person is demoted, but it isn't strictly enforced, leading to them keeping their authority etc until PD can just promote them back again, meaning that CKing the cop has zero effect at all.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
5 hours ago, MrDanzo3000 said:

I played in a server with this sort of ruleset for about a year, and the amount of toxicity it introduced into the system was huge, and drove me away to servers like this one.

 

It turned into an OOC chess game, with people rules lawyering back and forth, trying to get the right character motivation to kill someone, vying for the ears of admins to approve the CK. A huge OOC mess of people spiteful against each other, especially among illegal factions who would do this constantly to each other to get the upper hand.

 

Don't like someone OOC? Don't like their RP? Find a reason to CK them. it's really not hard to engineer a reason if you try for a while, criminals can repeatedly target the same person untill they retaliate, legal character or not. What happens if they finally call the cops? Don't give in to your demands? Try to fight back? It just gives you a reason to kill them, which is what you wanted all along.

 

The problem with forcing people to care more by taking away everything they've worked for, is that people end up caring too much. They get a vendetta OOC and devolve into toxicity in appeals, and when all else fails they just end up trying to engineer and plot to kill the person who just killed off their many hours of development because "I'm a dangerous nazi and you called the cops on me." (Like any sane person would)

 

Not to mention when you give this sort of power out to admins, to CK people on the spot, those people who are members of staff or are friends with members of staff get biased results and it's unavoidable. It can be subtle things like faster responses to situations, or just outright ruling in favour of others, it'll happen.

 

People Will abuse the system to strike at people they want gone OOCly,  your whole post seems to revolve around trying to force IC reactions by manipulating people's feelings OOC, which will do much more harm than good. 

" So if you've enjoyed role playing with that character specifically.. you will likely have some sort of sentimental value attached to that player which in return will make you feel a certain type of way or otherwise conflicted with real world results." 

Yeah no, it'll just piss people off, and people will use this fact to just target people they don't like OOC or weaken rival organisations by engineering the RP to lead to a CK or a war. People aren't just going to say "Oh what a shame, I guess that gangbanger killed me for calling his mum fat, darn, time to re-roll!" They'll say: "That fucker, I'll get him CK'ed back for this, come on guys."

 

"Whenever you see a character you've met in a critical state, there is no real emotion. This means, other aspects that relate to real life such as grieving are non existent." 

That's just called Bad roleplaying. You should roleplay sadness, loss, and grief without the OOC influence of "They'll be back later". Also, I've never seen any killers who show an ounce of emotion when killing someone for scratching their car, or apparently selling an xbox.

 

The end result of this change would be a lot of people getting pissed off at each other OOC. People will manipulate this system to kill off all their rivals for good. Barely any criminals roleplay feeling any sort of remorse or hesitation to kill and gladly jump straight to murder, and this system will just reinforce that because now they won't even leave any witnesses. 

 

All the systems in this server get manipulated, just look at construction and how there was a monopoly milking people for hundreds of thousands of dollars for months. Look at how the property system is manipulated by people flipping houses for 100% profit, look at how ads are handled, with people spamming the command every minute to dominate the chatspace. 

 

Not really willing to trust the community with the ability to bump off my character willy-nilly, it gives people too much of a power-trip. It creates Toxicity. I've had a ton of very enjoyable RP without the looming threat of death over my head.

This literally mirrors all my opinions about this. Not supporting this idea as well, because of all the reasons above. There's no way this won't cause less deaths in my opinion. Plus, I personally think this is just too harsh and other ways could be implemented.

Edited by TwistedMessez
Link to comment

I think the PK system we have currently is fine, though it DOES need tweaking some. People should not be walking about like they just did two days for murder and acting all proud. Either they need to be CK'd or the Prison needs to get done and they can go in there with access to that character still and continue RP there. 1 murder sure, they'd come back out. 2 murders is fine line stuff.. three? That's straight up LIFE in a cell fam.

 

There is WAY too much killing currently to even consider CK's as default a thing. I'm not against it at all but jeez Louise, being a COP with that right now would be a nightmare when Mr Kipling decides to shoot you on a traffic stop, drive off and /vpark alt f4. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

I’m all for it. I’ve bordered on forcing two CK wars this month alone because PK’s had ruined all development and continuity within the community/factions I was dealing with. This was then ended with people ”RK’ing” because they spawn back in and get involved all over again. 

 

Endless cycle of bullshit - that’s all PK’s are, especially where factions are concerned. I also think the tables need to be turned on LEO factions. There’s a strong attitude of forcing CK’s on criminals who force death without dying scriptwise (which I agree with) but there’s never role reversal. Come into a gang neighbourhood on your solo patrol and talk shit? Better take that CK.

 

Unfortunately I don’t see it happening any time soon. The community is so divided over what makes high standard roleplay that we could never agree a set of rules around it. This is why we have the CK applications. 

Link to comment
17 minutes ago, eyebrows said:

I’m all for it. I’ve bordered on forcing two CK wars this month alone because PK’s had ruined all development and continuity within the community/factions I was dealing with. This was then ended with people ”RK’ing” because they spawn back in and get involved all over again. 

 

Endless cycle of bullshit - that’s all PK’s are, especially where factions are concerned. I also think the tables need to be turned on LEO factions. There’s a strong attitude of forcing CK’s on criminals who force death without dying scriptwise (which I agree with) but there’s never role reversal. Come into a gang neighbourhood on your solo patrol and talk shit? Better take that CK.

 

Unfortunately I don’t see it happening any time soon. The community is so divided over what makes high standard roleplay that we could never agree a set of rules around it. This is why we have the CK applications. 

If they had reasons to go on a violent killing massacre, why didn't they just apply for CKs? Faction management is there to handle these things. The whole community should not suffer because of the select few, because every tree has a bad apple. I for sure am not losing a character with nearly 1k hours of development poured into it, to some random gang member that decided to go pull a gun and go rambo shooting at 15 armed cops that are aiming at him, because.. hey, he'll lose his character anyway to long prison time, might as well go with a bang.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...