PK and CK

[EDR]

8 minutes ago, Maca said:

https://www.ajc.com/news/man-shot-death-over-xbox-sale-gone-wrong-wife-says/1M5jjWPdP6olXOrmoQqVUL/

 

This is a common thing in the States. People die over trivial shit and it's a part of every day life.

 

Not going to bother fleshing out a massive post because it'll be ignored anyway. Accept the fact that life (the thing you are roleplaying) has consequences, many of them unfair. There are no protective bubbles around you in real life, they shouldn't be around you here neither.

 

As for the below quote, this isn't even a problem. Most of us would happily enforce this.

With all due respect, by your logic this is literally an open invitation to basically inciting the purge and mindless deathmatching, for "trivial shit". I expressed myself earlier and I will do so again, there is a fine balance between a video game and reality and that line should not be crossed, there's systems already in-place for character-kills and player-kills and they've been proven to work.

[mala]

Disagreeing with this because.. well, it doesn't allow you to develop a character very far. People kill for very frivolous reasons on GtaW and that can't be helped by any rule or attempt at realism. People die in real life all the time for frivolous reasons but the percentage of it happening is MUCH higher on this server. People base their entire characters on being irate and homicidal.

 

Also - this would be a severe drawback to businesses. To open up a bar properly, you need to apply for the business license under your current character name, apply for the liquor license after that & wait around to catch one of the licensing agents online, then the fire inspection... Can you imagine getting killed off over something frivolous, doing all the inspections again under your new name, and then getting killed again 2 weeks later because someone wanted to rob you for the money and had no realistic value for human life?

 

CK's should be a last resort so this server doesn't turn into a garbage pile of disposable characters who people don't put much time and development into.

[1357]

13 minutes ago, Mitch said:

By that Xbox source, can I kill a person called Tim for stealing my sandwich? 

 

S: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/08/18/buffalo-man-who-killed-friend-for-eating-his-sandwich-gets-22-years-in-prison.html

I wouldn't be surprised if that person was from Florida.. with that being said:

 

There is no denying that people do die over trivial things every single day, but this is why the server strongly enforces high quality character standards. This more so diverts from the topic at hand and it's a lot more obvious i believe why this (killing somebody for stealing a sandwich) may not exactly be considered OK.

 

20 minutes ago, EDR said:

there is a fine balance between a video game and reality and that line should not be crossed, there's systems already in-place for character-kills and player-kills and they've been proven to work.

What's mentioned above is a good example of fine balance. Introducing a change to remove PK and keep CK is something that would provide more depth to role play as a whole. Killing someone for stealing a sandwich isn't exactly game changing.. right?

12 minutes ago, Pinkerton said:

But all this would do is create MORE admin situations because more people will be reporting for bs kills not to mention having to wait 3 days for someone to approve an appeal because my game bugged out while I was talking as a passenger in a car and made me eject at 70MPH into a guardrail and there weren't any admins around.

 

There are just way too many issues at this point to implement a ck only system.

This is something that is usually agreed and understood to by those prior to applying and becoming an administrator.. 

[Syrike]

I'd love to see something like this become the case, but for it to happen player attitudes need to change. If this were to suddenly be implemented at this very moment I feel as though it would create a "Need to CK them before they CK me." mentality which would simply not work. Now if people chose to RP a situation correctly and their characters could actually feel fear, then this would create an environment that would allow for this to succeed. However a lot of people need to lose the mentality of "I'll just PK to get out of this."

 

All of this being said, I'd like to see something like this happen, or at the very least more consequences and more CK over PK situations coming into play on the server.

[EDR]

Just now, 1357 said:

-

Literally, no. I simply do not see your suggestion being feasible nor practical in the sense that you're entrusting the entire community to behave and be reasonable, there are several flaws which could be heavily exploited by players who have malicious intent. This is a video game and as a video game stands, it must remain balanced and fair to all. I understand that reality is unforgiving, brutal and just outright unfair to the most innocent of people but that would literally be just a far cry when attempting to merge such laws of nature into a video-game that tries to portray reality the best it can, since the inception of roleplay in the Grand Theft Auto universe many have come to agree on the terms of PK's and CK's and it has literally worked flawlessly.

 

As the famous saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." 

[1357]

8 hours ago, EDR said:

Literally, no. I simply do not see your suggestion being feasible nor practical in the sense that you're entrusting the entire community to behave and be reasonable, there are several flaws which could be heavily exploited by players who have malicious intent. This is a video game and as a video game stands, it must remain balanced and fair to all. I understand that reality is unforgiving, brutal and just outright unfair to the most innocent of people but that would literally be just a far cry when attempting to merge such laws of nature into a video-game that tries to portray reality the best it can, since the inception of roleplay in the Grand Theft Auto universe many have come to agree on the terms of PK's and CK's and it has literally worked flawlessly.

 

As the famous saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." 

Why is it you think that video games evolve over the years? Probably to contest their popularity with newer titles and retain their player base.. with the rare exception of a few MMORPG's (osrs.. classic wow) but even those have introduced new mechanics and items that were otherwise never seen to exist in its earlier days. So should they just remove all of those ideas and recent additions that ceased to exist in the original game just because you could still play the game perfectly fine otherwise? Why would they do so when they work and make the game much more enjoyable than it already was?

 

What's the point of companies releasing new phones when the phone you may have now functions exactly how you would expect a phone to? It calls like a phone should, it texts like a modern phone should, it fits into your pocket like a cellphone should. What differences are there compared to my current phone because it seems to me that my iPhone 6s is capable of making phone calls, sending text messages, face timing and using other popular mobile applications such as instagram and snapchat just as well as the more recent versions. Oh.. and i still have my headphone jack. So what gives? Why are they releasing new iPhones when the earlier phones function exactly how a cellphone should? 

 

What if the servers current phone system was entirely revamped and introduced into the server tomorrow.. the system was written from the ground up.. upgraded and it's even objectively better than the one we have now? Its completely interactive along with a sleek and clean UI.. but why do we need this when the current system is capable of the same thing but only more simple?

 

I know it's hard not to view this with a glass half full perspective but lets try to instead also look at the benefits that would come with such an idea. Role play in itself is limited right now as a result with how the current system functions. We aren't necessarily putting our trust into ourselves as community members and regular players.. we are putting our trust in staff and management to make this achievable. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by 1357

[KV]

I agree 100% that people are falling short when it comes to properly RPing fear and loss of life, be it their own or the people around them.   When the mindset is that one can merely shrug off the event and 'forget it' through an inevitable PK, it clearly reflects in their characters actions.  

That said, I would love to see a lot more CKs.  Not all, though.  The stupidity of a character should definitely warrant a CK, be it playing a hero during a robbery and getting massacred, willingly getting into a gun-fight (Police, gang, civilian, whatever), or falling off of a cliff while driving around like an idiot.  CK CK CK. 

But the ratio of criminals to law-abiding citizens in this game in no way reflects reality except maybe if it were the wild-wild-west where everyone and their mother owns and is quick to draw a gun (half kidding),  so I don't think imposing such strict CK rules onto everyone would make sense as it currently stands.  But I do think it's too lax.   
 

Edited May 23, 2019 by KV

[hotboy]

3 hours ago, Westen said:

How do we plan to address these CKs then, if CKs replace the current PKing mechanic when you die? /report every time you kill someone and have that admin investigate and then CK then, or replace the current death script with an automatic CK?

 

What happens if, say, I'm on a traffic stop and someone rolls up and guns me down then drives away, ignoring my PMs as to why I was killed? I don't know if I was DMed, I have absolutely zero way of finding out. But if I'm automatically Cked there and then and it's found I was DMed, is my character rolled back?

 

What if there are no admins available to handle my CK? Do I just have to namechange?

 

What about cops that are CKed? Do they change rank or just namechange into a different character at the same rank?

 

This is simple.

When a player kills another player for a valuable reason, it warrants a CK.

If it is on a cop for a valuable reason then let's make it a rank down.

 

This system could benefits the server's economy by recycling its playerbase and equilibrate the different classes.

+ @1357 benefits/drawbacks are pretty much resuming.

 

How do you put this out?

You don't need anything. Only allow any player to request a CK when they dime it deserved.

If the player CKed believe that he should not have been, then he is free to appeal with evidences that the kill does not warrant a CK.

 

The only thing you need to figure out is in what type of situation a CK is needed.

The system needs to be fair though.

[EDR]

1 minute ago, 1357 said:

Why is it you think that video games evolve over the years? Probably to contest their popularity with newer titles and retain their player base.. with the rare exception of a few MMORPG's (osrs.. classic wow) but even those have introduced new mechanics and items that were otherwise never seen to exist in its earlier days. So should they just remove all of those ideas and recent additions that ceased to exist in the original game just because you could still play the game perfectly fine otherwise? Why would they do so when they work and make the game much more enjoyable than it already was?

 

What is it with all of these recent cellphones that seem to be advancing? Are they really advancing because it seems to me that my iPhone 6s is capable of making phone calls, sending text messages, face timing and using other popular mobile applications such as instagram and snapchat just as well as the more recent versions. Oh.. and i still have my headphone jack.

 

Truthfully speaking.. if you just go back and re read through the entire post  your concerns may not be so concerning after all because there are ways to address the issues at hand. Will it require more work? Potentially.. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it because so. Just as there may be flaws in removing PK.. there are flaws with how it currently stands as well and you will see those if you go back and read the topic post by post starting from the top.

What you just said right there means absolutely nothing to the subject at hand, your way of implying that we have to "move on" and "evolve" to apparently retain the player base? If anything you'll be driving the playerbase away with your illogical proposition (if it ever goes through). Plus I can't really understand why you had to add the technological advancements in cellphones? Doesn't really relate to the topic, but I digress. There is literally no need to unnecessarily complicate things for the satisfaction of very few individuals in this community and instead look at the broader and more prosperous aspect of keeping the game balanced. 

 

I understand this is literally just a discussion topic, and nothing has been set in stone aside from hints from administration that this could be looked into, and truthfully speaking I hope something could become of this in terms of reinforcing on the player-kill and character-kill rules and regulations, but not to the extent that you envision the community to become, burdened with the possibility of just having my character permanently killed because it's suddenly a free-for-all server. 

 

I stand firm against your proposition but instead, alternatively, I would suggest for the player-kill and character-kill system to be revised and potentially add criteria to where a players death constitutes for a character-kill, for example a player completely disregarding their life in-character and refusing to comply whilst held at gunpoint, or a fleeing suspect having a high speed crash after a pursuit, just obvious scenarios where the player themselves puts themselves in a predicament where their life is or would be in danger, instead of it being an outright character-kill for any and every death.

 

 

[Velora]

1 hour ago, Maca said:

https://www.ajc.com/news/man-shot-death-over-xbox-sale-gone-wrong-wife-says/1M5jjWPdP6olXOrmoQqVUL/

 

This is a common thing in the States. People die over trivial shit and it's a part of every day life.

 

Not going to bother fleshing out a massive post because it'll be ignored anyway. Accept the fact that life (the thing you are roleplaying) has consequences, many of them unfair. There are no protective bubbles around you in real life, they shouldn't be around you here neither.

 

As for the below quote, this isn't even a problem. Most of us would happily enforce this.

America also has  working prisons and forensics to investigate murders. Sure you can kill someone over their XBOX, but don't expect to get away with it.  AKA consequences. Here there are no such things yet. It is very hard for PD to actively investigate a murder and even if they do catch the person, what do they do? Put the person in 'jail'  for a few hours? Where are the consequences you mentioned?

 

When can we expect these features to come?

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Velora