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PK and CK


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CKs definitely should not happen on every death. There has to be crystal clear guidelines - for instance, if you're on a robbery spree, your victims could retaliate. If you're a victim of a robbery and snitch, there could be retaliation. If there's a random killing of a cop? I'm not entirely sure a CK is the best for that case.

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I don't see how having people CK left and right is going to promote actual character development, if any Joe can just take a gun out and kill you and end a character you put an enormous amount of effort into. Plus there's going to be others that for OOC reasons target someone they want to mess with and look for reasons how to get them killed legitimately, while using alternative characters they do not care about.

 

It's far too inconvenient to moderate, because no body is just going to accept their character being gone without trying to appeal it. And this would also mean putting trust into any new comer on the server, to not ruin someone's roleplay that has been developed for months, if not years.

 

There's good reasons why no body implements this system.

 

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4 minutes ago, HaveADream said:

@Rumbunctious made a very good point - people will and have died for really stupid reasons, and for that, you'd lose everything for it. I know there are plenty of people here that are okay with the risks of crime and pissing people off, but what about those that aren't? I'm not talking about gangbangers that are simply just doing crime sprees until someone stops them, more about people that are actively trying to live legally, as a normal civilian without the bells and whistles you find in illegal and PD RP. 

 

It's not a case of "people will think about consequences before doing things" it's that people will just stop doing things altogether, how many shootings have there been at nightclubs? Even if the reason was legit, what if you get hit a stray bullet? If you're a fledging journalist trying to start your own outlet and you come across something that incriminates a group of people, they could just walk right into your office and ensure your outlet lies dormant. What if, as @Rumbunctious said, you hit a guys sports car? 

 

It's also not a case of just transferring assets over either, people get attached to the characters themselves. I've known a few people who have been forcibly CK'd, their response wasn't "Ah, well, I can just transfer." It's "I've lost over a thousand hours of character development, the relationships, the memories, the build-up, all of that for a reason that isn't really legit." How do you transfer a nightclub, a beach house, a gym, a news outlet, to a random character who had absolutely no association with your previous character? 

 

Put it this way, if Kalani got CK'd tomorrow, I wouldn't be upset about losing my car, I'd be upset about losing Saints, I'd be upset about having to start from scratch with all the relationships I had with other companies, I'd be upset about losing Kalani over a reason which, as far as I can think of right now, doesn't exist, it's why I actually don't do investigative journalism with Saints, in attempts to not piss people off.

 

I get the intentions are good and I do agree to a large extent it will really improve roleplay quality and will make people actively fear for their lives, but we really wouldn't be the first server to try it. Others have, but they didn't last very long after that.

 

Hey ? before i continue would you mind reading my response towards yours and the many others who share the same concern to some of the issues you mention by any chance if you haven't already? It may provide you with a few ideas that we can come up with to work on making this idea a reality for the server.. 

 

It seems like so far the main complaint is not about losing the wealth a character has but more so losing the progress that is attributed to the character which is understandable but also speaks volumes in a positive light within the community.. it goes to show how many people do genuinely put effort in to their characters which is awesome and not commonly seen in most servers. But even then.. usually no one wants to die in real life either because of those reasons.

 

With that being said..

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People will just stop doing things altogether,

Do you write this in reference to crime or players in fear of committing crime because of the associated drawbacks that would come with death? If so.. i would view both of these as indirect positive changes as a result of the idea proposed, would you agree? 

 

As a general rule of thumb, if you do not involve yourself in anything crime related or particularly life threatening you should be able to function and live your entire life just as how it usually is for most people in the real world. Again.. i believe we can think of something that mostly satisfies both sides.

 

Another pretty bad example could be a 2-3 strike system for all characters that die. Since the main issues are: Some players do not want to lose all the progress they've invested into their characters along with the cause for concern of dying as a result of small scale reasons.

 

Each time that a character dies, they are faced with a death strike on their character. The moment the strikes are used up.. the character is CK'd and whatever else that comes with it. This could negate the aspect of dying due to illegitimate reasons.. these strikes could even potentially be investigated to be deemed accurate or incorrect with the use of a UCP system for characters. 

 

Maybe other servers have tried this although none that i'm aware of, maybe you'd like to name a few as a source as it'd be nice to see what went wrong and how it went wrong. But even in the scenario that this idea has been used in RP servers related to something like ours where players try to role play human beings in a real world.. what if we could do it better? 

 

7 minutes ago, Westen said:

How do we plan to address these CKs then, if CKs replace the current PKing mechanic when you die? /report every time you kill someone and have that admin investigate and then CK then, or replace the current death script with an automatic CK?

 

What happens if, say, I'm on a traffic stop and someone rolls up and guns me down then drives away, ignoring my PMs as to why I was killed? I don't know if I was DMed, I have absolutely zero way of finding out. But if I'm automatically Cked there and then and it's found I was DMed, is my character rolled back?

 

What if there are no admins available to handle my CK? Do I just have to namechange?

 

What about cops that are CKed? Do they change rank or just namechange into a different character at the same rank?

 

 

 

I think this would be a little far fetched but as an idea.. possibly:

 

Once a player dies or /acceptdeath.. they are somehow automatically returned to the GTA World character selection menu. Their character is automatically ajail'd as a CK. If they go to the UCP.. there could be a sub-category to show a list of CK'd characters and they will have the option for the CK'd character in question to be investigated in the scenario that they were killed as a result of illegitimate reasons.

 

These are all ideas that don't really have much depth or logic behind them.. just quickly thought ideas that could possibly be used to develop into a real system.

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10 minutes ago, 1357 said:

As a general rule of thumb, if you do not involve yourself in anything crime related or particularly life threatening you should be able to function and live your entire life just as how it usually is for most people in the real world. Again.. i believe we can think of something that mostly satisfies both sides.

No? Every illegal faction or character is going to target civilians obviously, high profit with little risk. And in these situations it's very likely to become a victim of unfortunate circumstances. Again, the victim could be someone who has put a lot of effort and thought into the character, whereas the criminal can just be in it for the thrill, alternative character without a care in the world.

 

What you are proposing could work on a closed community of about 20 friends who all trust each other not to do dumb things, but not here.

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10 minutes ago, lonex said:

No? Every illegal faction or character is going to target civilians obviously, high profit with little risk. And in these situations it's very likely to become a victim of unfortunate circumstances. Again, the victim could be someone who has put a lot of effort and thought into the character, whereas the criminal can just be in it for the thrill, alternative character without a care in the world.

 

What you are proposing could work on a closed community of about 20 friends who all trust each other not to do dumb things, but not here.

Well i should have emphasized on should. If a person does not involve themselves in criminal activity or jobs that require your life on the line such as LEO's for example.. the standard person should be safe from harms way when it involves death.. unless again.. it's self induced. I also haven't really came across any factions that specifically target civilians or anyone that would do that for that matter unless they're role playing a sadistic murderer but usually gangs, cartels and anything related generally try to target the enemy not the regular odd 9 to 5 working civilian. 

 

There can of course be certain restrictions.. it doesn't have to come without restrictions alongside measures in place to prevent some of the cause for concern that is mentioned.. I believe with well thought ideas and proper administration and management that i find your last statement to not have to be true at all.. there are rules here for a reason..

 

This is a server that promotes character standard and quality to the highest. If a person is creating a character with the idea they will not care about it and there is no thought put in to the character other than "he is crazy and has zero care for the world" then they're just trying to bypass rules and standards and shouldn't be welcomed on the server. People like that probably won't last long. 

 

 

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There's a fine line between fully emulating real life and understanding that this is a video game, of course I agree on the fact that players should value their characters life and portray fear correctly, although a new system that you're suggesting would be far more complicated and a logistical nightmare to review the character-kills, to appeal character-kills, to merely monitor situations where it is deemed a character-kill. Not only that but it would be an open invitation to those with malicious intent to purposely go out of their way to target and or intentionally kill someone of interest, using the new proposed system as a default means of character-killing  someone.

 

I believe it's simply best to follow what has worked for the last several years in the roleplaying community and understand that there has to be a balance between player-kills and character-kills, and those who simply do not portray their character realistically when their life is at risk, then go ahead and report the player(s) to where they'll be under review. 

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13 minutes ago, 1357 said:
24 minutes ago, lonex said:

No? Every illegal faction or character is going to target civilians obviously, high profit with little risk. And in these situations it's very likely to become a victim of unfortunate circumstances. Again, the victim could be someone who has put a lot of effort and thought into the character, whereas the criminal can just be in it for the thrill, alternative character without a care in the world.

 

What you are proposing could work on a closed community of about 20 friends who all trust each other not to do dumb things, but not here.

Well i should have emphasized on should. If a person does not involve themselves in criminal activity or jobs that require your life on the line such as LEO's for example.. the standard person should be safe from harms way when it involves death.. unless again.. it's self induced. I also haven't really came across any factions that specifically target civilians or anyone that would do that for that matter unless they're role playing a sadistic murderer but usually gangs, cartels and anything related generally try to target the enemy not the regular odd 9 to 5 working civilian. 

 

There can of course be certain restrictions.. it doesn't have to come without restrictions alongside measures in place to prevent some of the cause for concern that is mentioned.. I believe with well thought ideas and proper administration and management that i find your last statement to not have to be true at all.. there are rules here for a reason..

Ah yes, because people usually don't kill someone after having something as a mere vocal argument, or physical encounter. Not to mention the situations you can get yourself into, just for offering to help somebody as just a civilian.

 

You do not have to involve yourself in any criminal activity to be a victim of one.

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Does a stranger need a lift? Trap. Did someone smash up your car? Leave it, you might die. Did someone kidnap your friend? Sucks to be them, not losing my character for it! Going outside? Might get hit by a car doing 100mph. Staying inside? Someone might break in, get scared and CK you.

 

Please understand the risk is astronomically higher in GTA World than the real world, I get that you're trying to make it workable, but I'm struggling to see how it does so. 

 

I get there needs to be stronger consequences for the risks we all take with our characters, but not like this.

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15 minutes ago, lonex said:

Ah yes, because people usually don't kill someone after having something as a mere vocal argument, or physical encounter. Not to mention the situations you can get yourself into, just for offering to help somebody as just a civilian.

 

You do not have to involve yourself in any criminal activity to be a victim of one.

Well again.. this is why i then emphasized on should. I also feel like this concern is slightly exaggerated just a little to an extent. I've been playing for quite some time now and throughout my time playing i have yet to encounter someone try to kill me, rob me, or even death matched for that matter. Then again.. my character doesn't go out of his way to involve himself in things that could potentially otherwise result in any of the aforementioned.

 

I am not stating that if a person does not partake in criminal activities or legal careers that they'll survive a long life and should be fine. I am instead implying that their chances of 3rd party risk and danger in general is greatly reduced. 

 

Again there can be restrictions and there can be ideas the negate these legitimate concerns.. some of which i've expressed in previous comments albeit not the most well thought of but to be instead used as base lines to further expand on. 

 

Just now, HaveADream said:

Does a stranger need a lift? Trap. Did someone smash up your car? Leave it, you might die. Did someone kidnap your friend? Sucks to be them, not losing my character for it! Going outside? Might get hit by a car doing 100mph. Staying inside? Someone might break in, get scared and CK you.

 

Please understand the risk is astronomically higher in GTA World than the real world, I get that you're trying to make it workable, but I'm struggling to see how it does so. 

 

I get there needs to be stronger consequences for the risks we all take with our characters, but not like this.

 

Well this truly comes down to character quality. Have you been in a minor car accident before? I don't have a source for statistics but from personal experience they usually don't result in someone dying. I understand your perspective but we don't necessarily have to continue attacking the idea with the most extreme worst case scenarios.. especially if we're the same ones who agree that it'd improve the server if we could only figure out solutions and further ideas to address and squash the potential issues at hand..

 

Also.. i don't know about you but if you pick up a stranger you should be aware of the risks that come with that. Me personally, i've never and plan to never pick up a stranger. There is no need to put my life in danger to help someone who i have never seen or met in my life? This comes down to people who are willing to put their lives at risk.. if they choose to do so then the result is of the decisions they've made.

 

Players should feel conflicted and have to think twice whether or not they want to pick up some random stranger on the side of the street while it's raining at 10:30 at night or even in the day time for that matter. Instead.. players do these heroic favors because there are no real risks that pertain to them.. that's also an issue believe it or not. There is no real fear.

 

Role play is supposed to feel immersive and right now it could be a lot more immersive and beneficial which you've even agreed with for the most part.. 

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4 minutes ago, HaveADream said:

Does a stranger need a lift? Trap. Did someone smash up your car? Leave it, you might die. Did someone kidnap your friend? Sucks to be them, not losing my character for it! Going outside? Might get hit by a car doing 100mph. Staying inside? Someone might break in, get scared and CK you.

 

Please understand the risk is astronomically higher in GTA World than the real world, I get that you're trying to make it workable, but I'm struggling to see how it does so. 

 

I get there needs to be stronger consequences for the risks we all take with our characters, but not like this.

I don't see how "the risk is astronomically higher" in the server when all of the situations you mentioned are something you'd face in-real life, too. Most people won't pick up strangers because they don't know them, they are going to be intimidated by vandalism (and alert authorities depending on what side of the law they're on), they're not going to turn into Liam Neeson and rescue a friend from a kidnapping, they're going to check left and right before crossing and have sufficient home security installed depending on where they live.
To elaborate, I know some players may hold a certain disdain to the quality of life, but I'm pretty sure these things would not happen as often (to my own knowledge, they don't happen much outside of faction wars anyway) as you're saying if the stakes were raised for such an act, whether it be higher, longer jail time, or prison depending on if/when it's implemented and of course a risk of being character-killed in any of these scenarios.

And then there'll come more excuses, such as "people will make (alternate) characters that are much more 'disposable', the "it's a game" argument we've seen in every other discussion held towards achieving a higher roleplay standard, or the rule-breaking and poorly roleplayed, bug-induced deaths, (which I assume would probably be able to go under review).
I'm sure a few of you on this thread will say that there's less room for development because of it, despite actual real death you can't just respawn from opening up more avenues of character development for players outside of factions.

That being said, I personally don't believe that right now it's feasible to outright replace the two, despite me thinking that 1357's death strike & review system is pretty well thought out.

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