Elections & Player-Run Government

[Marcus.]

From my experience with Govt RP, I don't think the position of Mayor should be held by an individual. Similar to being Chief of Police there is nothing realistically to be done IG by the Mayor aside from speeches or events that do not require massive amounts of security. Which is why most Mayors tend to go inactive whether they are given actual >power< or not.

 

The more interesting part of Govt RP is the city council/city senate, because these councilors/senators can actively participate in different sorts of roleplay in-game without requiring amounts of security. Furthermore, the formation of political parties aside from the obvious choices of Rep or Dem must be encouraged, whilst the aforementioned two parties usually dominate there are way more parties to influence municipal elections. Spin this further and you potentially have a very active environment on your hands, given that elections are held on the regular to spice things up. Also city council/senate RP will be able to provide all sorts of drama to keep Weazel active as well.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Marcus.

[HaveADream]

19 minutes ago, Marcus. said:

From my experience with Govt RP, I don't think the position of Mayor should be held by an individual. Similar to being Chief of Police there is nothing realistically to be done IG by the Mayor aside from speeches or events that do not require massive amounts of security. Which is why most Mayors tend to go inactive whether they are given actual >power< or not.

 

The more interesting part of Govt RP is the city council/city senate, because these councilors/senators can actively participate in different sorts of roleplay in-game without requiring amounts of security. Furthermore, the formation of political parties aside from the obvious choices of Rep or Dem must be encouraged, whilst the aforementioned two parties usually dominate there are way more parties to influence municipal elections. Spin this further and you potentially have a very active environment on your hands, given that elections are held on the regular to spice things up. Also city council/senate RP will be able to provide all sorts of drama to keep Weazel active as well.

Exactly what I'd try to implement in my system, more power divided between the whole council rather than just one person at the top.

[codependency]

I'm all for mayor roleplay, honestly speaking. I think the government should be more active in game and especially participating in events that involve governmental agencies, as well as their own, whilst marking their own presence as well. There should be a mayor as well as a mayoral security detail, secretaries, receptionists, engineers and such. Not only will this provide more roleplay experience, but I think it'll also allow people to view government roleplay for what it is, because it can genuinely be fun. 

 

I'm all for a player-run government and elections but I don't view it as an extremely high priority for the time being and think I'd be okay with it taking a lot of time till it is done. I'm sure this is already in the works though.

[pogoyo]

@AVRO DANKASTER keeps a low profile which seems to have invited some assumptions on his activity. I was in the government both before Avro (Vincent Rockford) came in and afterwards, and I've remained active in that side of RP as a lawyer in private practice for almost four months. Neither mayor was elected because the system was too infant to support both elections and an operational, sustainable government. There was no organization or infrastructure of any kind. The first mayor was someone who ICly went by Olivia Morales, and they remained in that position for two months accomplishing almost nothing. Avro came in afterwards and has been there ever since. 

 

In that time period, Avro and the rest of his staff in government have launched a full website that is consequential to the in-game experience (https://gov.gta.world/). Government impacts the server in many ways that are almost all accessible via this website; the difference is that the government will not impose itself on you, you need to seek it. There is a comprehensive aid system in place for businesses via grants, subsidies and credit requests that is actively maintained by a team called the Department of Finance. A business or organization can freely request money from the government, sometimes with repayment, sometimes not. The City Council has already been mostly composed behind the scenes and will be appointed again soon, from what I've heard (the last iteration of the City Council was in the fall of last year). A District Attorney's office is being implemented soon as well. For anything more on that, I'm sure they themselves could give you a recap (https://gov.gta.world/node/74).

 

As regards elections, I believe that they are an exciting and entertaining scenario for RP and that they're worth doing. I also respect the rationale of the current government administration, which is that a firm, finished system should precede any election to ensure that the government remains stable through transition. The situation is a lot better than it was six months ago: the Penal Code has been revised and the courts are more active, but legislation has developed steadily until now through somewhat meta OOC authorship and implementation. 

 

No slight to you for being interested in bringing about elections, but this conversation comes up every few months, borne of an assumption that the current government is inactive, uninvolved or ineffective. I would disagree, and I agree with some gov players' opinions that a polished system designed by a stable, careful and future-oriented team should precede elections, for the betterment of the server. The guys running government right now aren't determined to write empty IC speeches for a contrived political dialogue, they're just trying to build the system for everyone else, and from what I can see they are doing it well.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Spenser

[Smilesville]

2 hours ago, Spenser said:

No slight to you for being interested in bringing about elections, but this conversation comes up every few months, borne of an assumption that the current government is inactive, uninvolved or ineffective. I would disagree, and I agree with some gov players' opinions that a polished system designed by a stable, careful and future-oriented team should precede elections, for the betterment of the server.

Various statements made with regards to the way the GOV operates leaves me with very little hope for the future of the faction until elections are installed.

 

I am emphatic about the progress of the courts and the upcoming implementations of the DOC and DA, but I can't say the same for the GOV side of things. Can you blame individuals for suspecting the GOV is inactive when the only indicator we have of any activity (updated inspection availability) is updated about once per month? There seems to have been more effort of late, but there have been weeks on end where the availability of every licensing agent was "TBD," and even times where the schedule displayed had passed a month prior. I have personally had applications pending for multiple months with no movement.

 

Can you blame anyone for suspecting, then, that the GOV is inactive when all available evidence points to that conclusion?

 

I'll believe the GOV is serious about advancing change when I see elections - until then, I'm really not interested in what seems to pass for 'progress.'

[pogoyo]

53 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Various statements made with regards to the way the GOV operates leaves me with very little hope for the future of the faction until elections are installed.

 

I am emphatic about the progress of the courts and the upcoming implementations of the DOC and DA, but I can't say the same for the GOV side of things. Can you blame individuals for suspecting the GOV is inactive when the only indicator we have of any activity (updated inspection availability) is updated about once per month? There seems to have been more effort of late, but there have been weeks on end where the availability of every licensing agent was "TBD," and even times where the schedule displayed had passed a month prior. I have personally had applications pending for multiple months with no movement.

 

Can you blame anyone for suspecting, then, that the GOV is inactive when all available evidence points to that conclusion?

 

I'll believe the GOV is serious about advancing change when I see elections - until then, I'm really not interested in what seems to pass for 'progress.'

Allow me to apologize on their behalf that you were not offered free money with greater haste; it is certainly a travesty.

 

I am sure you have any number of grievances, but what you've covered in your post thus far expresses dissatisfaction with only a specific function of the city government: business perks, which consist primarily of grant and subsidy requests, AKA free money or semi-free money. I would assume, reasonably, that any slowness in the grant process is to give reviewers the opportunity to choose how and what is budgeted, to whom and why. There are plenty of people who apply for large sums of money for any number of reasons, and it is good that they consider applications carefully. There are consequences to needlessly inflating players' wealth.

 

The government, as I've seen it, has only continued to improve and grow stable with time. The Department of Finance has more staff than ever, the City Council is coming, the DA's office is coming, which serves an executive function and will probably (or should) fall under city government purview, the Department of Culture is being expanded, the Department of Public Works is still staffed but pending some minor scripting from what I've heard, and last, but not least, a long and comprehensive City Charter was released that helps outline the role and structure of the government. 

 

 

I believe that even if these things don't pop out of the screen and touch a player's hand, they are important and it seems as though the fuller picture is nearing completion. There are plenty of people who have consistently expressed interest in running for mayor, but it looks to me like the legal side of this server has only just recently had a sort of Cambrian explosion.  There has been plenty of legal RP to go around involving the judiciary, such that I don't believe there is any shortage of opportunity for someone looking to portray that kind of character. A government focused on quietly implementing systems and setting structure in a future-oriented manner is infinitely more valuable to the server right now than political discourse RP, IC campaigning, or the contentedness of whoever has been waiting for the chance at acquiring authority.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Spenser

[Pive]

The government is not inactive as pointed out in the previous statement by Avro. As he pointed out, if you are interested in developing or getting involved with the government, please by any means reach out to us with your ideas and suggestions for the betterment of this server rather than making an outburst on the forum without any viable solutions. To my personal opinion the server is not quite there yet for the elections. We are laying the foundation brick by brick, for example some of you might have noticed the fresh from the oven city charter. Rome was not built within a day, and I hope the community has understanding for this.

 

1 hour ago, Smilesville said:

Can you blame individuals for suspecting the GOV is inactive when the only indicator we have of any activity (updated inspection availability) is updated about once per month? There seems to have been more effort of late, but there have been weeks on end where the availability of every licensing agent was "TBD," and even times where the schedule displayed had passed a month prior. I have personally had applications pending for multiple months with no movement.

 

Unfortunately we can not expect the people who have life outside this community to have the page updated every time they are around to role-play. It is not a requirement to keep that page up to date; it's just another tool for our officials to schedule their role-play when their personal life allows it. Inspections and whatnot do happen regardless what the availability on the page says.

 

I will stress that that our officials are active and actively reach out to the people who need to be reached out for. If you feel that your application(s) have taken too long to process, this forum is not the right place to file such complaint. There are proper in-character ways to do so.

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Pive

[Smilesville]

You're free to rattle on about whatever supposed activity has taken place, but the fact of the matter is that if no one in the faction is active enough to update the schedule by which a player is required to find a licensing agent in order to even begin RPing their business - you're not active. Any faction thread with this level of activity would be locked and archived.

 

Seems to me there are plenty of individuals to rattle off a series of snarky replies when self-aggrandizing is pointed out for what it is - which leads me to suspect perhaps the problem is not a "lack of activity," but a lack of interest in the GOV concept by the members within. I would go as far as to content that there's no activity in GOV due to sheer disinterest in what's already been done, and that the players stick around to collect a mechanical paycheck while performing the bare minimum to be considered part of the faction - which really is a shame for individuals who're actually working within the faction. I have no doubt that someone, somewhere, is working on something - the City Charter's existence is proof of that, but one or two motivated people do not constitute an entire faction. To claim that the GOV faction as a whole is even remotely successful, then, is incorrect.

 

Nobody is proud of what GOV is doing except for, well, GOV.

 

But don't take my word for it! Let's take a look at a wide variety of functions on the GOV website:
 

• There is only one job listing each for the Public and Private sections for job seekers. The only public job is the "Culture Curator" in a Cultural Affairs Department that has no practical purpose whatsoever.
   
• Applications for Affordable Housing are closed (and have been that way for some time.)
   
• Special Event Permits are perhaps one of the only useful functions I can see; it's a decent way to handle IC what has been handled OOC for a long time.
   
• Business Registration happens quickly, but it's like pulling teeth to get someone out to actually inspect it, despite the constant online presence of the licensing officers. Without Brian Bailey, this would likely fall apart too.
   
• I'm reasonably certain there is not actually any discussion pertaining to the Business Grant application I have in; someone set it as "under review" and it will likely never be looked at again, unless someone reading this post gets snarky and denies it in the next few days in an attempt to refute my point. The actual government is faster than this. Its only practical purpose now is to serve as a reminder for how long GOV will let things sit when it doesn't suit them to deal with it - we're at two months now, but let's see how long we can keep it going!
   
• The entirety of the new structure in the City Charter remains empty. The City Charted was posted in February. It is now May. This is not "fresh from the oven."
   

By all means, if I've missed some area of activity in which the GOV players are actually serving an important function, do feel free to bring it up - but there's no need to be snide when it's pointed out that the faction has less activity than Weazel, despite being trusted with exponentially more responsibility. If none of the players you've brought into the fold can be bothered to actually upkeep the GOV faction, then might I suggest the faction is being run by the wrong players.

 

Let's not pretend we don't know why Rockford is the mayor, either - Morales was removed due to public outcry over taxes that Rockford implemented anyways, and that's the precise moment at which the entirety of the server base gave up any hope of the GOV being held accountable to anything. We've been waiting since the very inception of the GOV faction for elections and we've been given excuse after excuse to explain why we cannot have them. If you want to hear constructive criticism, I've stated this repeatedly but will make it explicitly clear:

 

Post an elected office and an election period, have candidate applications to PLM to weed out unrealistic candidates, hold a campaign period, tally reasonable votes via the subforum already created for the purpose, and fill the positions in the City Charter.

 

There have been three months to do this. There are no reasonable excuses for why it has not been done already. If the document was posted three months before it could have been reasonably expected to be implemented, that sounds like a problem you cannot gloss over if you expect players to take the GOV faction seriously.

 

I am not going to hold back my criticism simply because you would prefer it be done in a private setting. I won't be responding more here because, frankly, I have better things to do than deal with whatever excuse you manage to conjure up.

 

I've provided my criticisms and my method of remedying the situation. I'll believe it when I see it, but I'm not holding on to any hope that we'll see elections before the server itself fades away. I and others will continue to ignore the GOV faction until such a point in time that it suits us, as we have since the day it came into being.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Smilesville

[Pive]

Let me just post some facts that I quickly compiled from our application system. Aside from Business Registration, Supplementary and Payment Notifications and Business Certificate Requests, an actual in-game encounter is required.

 

Business Registration

226 applications

...of which 3 unprocessed

...of which 1 being processed

...of which 186 approved (aka registered businesses)

...of which 36 denied or withdrawn

 

Business License Application

59 applications

...of which 3 awaiting inspection

...of which 1 awaiting payment by business owner

...of which 29 license issued & paid (aka licensed businesses)

...of which 17 denied (due to failed inspection or other)

...of which 8 revoked (due to unpaid fee or other)

 

Business Grant Application

52 applications

...of which 4 being processed

...of which 32 approved

...of which 16 denied or withdrawn

 

Business Credit Application

9 applications

...of which 3 approved

...of which 1 being processed

...of which 5 denied or withdrawn

 

Supplementary Notification

29 applications

...of which 29 processed

 

Payment Notification

53 applications

...of which 53 processed

 

Business Certificate Request

30 applications

...of which 30 finished & delivered

 

Special Event Permit

1 application

...of which 1 issued & paid

Edited May 8, 2019 by Pive

[SpawnMatrix]

GOV is lead by players already, and elections are planned for later on. But for now, elections will not happen. I'm locking this now as it's just going back and forth now. If you have an actual legitimate gripe about GOV then please, by all means PM a member of Legal FM with your gripe. But this is doing nothing.

Edited May 8, 2019 by SpawnMatrix