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Remove the $5,000 limit from rule 10 - Robbing and Scamming


Lerius

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8 hours ago, Lerius said:

This rule makes no sense and it's a serious flaw on how safe players feel in the game world. I will elaborate.

  • So sense of danger - This is my main point, having a limit on how much one can lose takes away the feel of danger from players. Anyone can go around the city with a million dollars in their pocket and feel safe because they know for a fact that noone can steal more than five thousand from them. This is flawed, as noone in the real world would ever feel safe carrying a million dollars around the streets.
  • Robbing people is not worth the risk - The risk/reward ratio for robbing players is biased, and heavily favours victims. It's not worth robbing someone knowing that you can only get 5k off from them, and perhaps later on the line get shot if you happen to rob the wrong person. Having that risk is simply not worth it knowning what you're going to get out from it.
  • Less roleplay - Without this limit, players wanting to carry large amount of cash from one point to another would have to find themselves a security company as an example, which would increase the interaction amount between players and security companies, creating roleplay. Right now the server offers the safe passage through a rule, which renders private transportation useless.

 

If players want to secure their money, they should put it into their bank. There is absolutely no reason to have this limitation as it only restricts possibilities. If they are stupid enough to carry hundreds of thousands of dollars with them on the streets they should obviously be punished for it.

Absolutely not. The rules makes perfect sense in that a huge cash infusion in an individual's account after a robbery reported for similar amounts of cash would draw the attention of the IRS. Considering we don't have an IRS, this is the closest we can get. Think of it like the rule preventing PF transfers before we had serial numbers coded in.

 

Allow me to offer a few additional counter points.

  • People do not walk around carrying a million dollars. This is an imagined problem. Considering we haven't had the foresight to implement credit cards yet, it's also not a player's fault if they have to march to the gun store with $15,000 in cash.
  • If robbing is not worth the risk, why does it happen on a daily basis? Robbery RP is extremely narrow, very rarely made fun for the victim, often takes place in unrealistic locations, and is often brief to the point of being a purely mechanical interaction between two players. If I write an emote that is more than one line long, they accuse me of "stalling" because they want their precious script items without actually having to go through the trouble of doing anything else. People in real life do not pull up to you at a light, point a gun at you, and demand all your money. I have no problem discouraging robbery RP because the quality is, frankly, appalling with no sign of improving - never mind that they're not actually risking anything by attempting to rob you. If the police catch them, they'll just get shot or do some more jail time, be out within a few hours, and move on.
  • People never move cash in the method you're describing. Even if someone had a reason to move $50,000 from point A to point B, their solution would not be to hire a private security company - but rather to simply not tell anyone with the hopes that they will be ignored in favor of more opportune targets. Mules routinely drove through isolated areas with over $25,000 in refined aluminum when individuals could mine for cash, and all of it was permitted to be stolen - and yet, security companies to protect miners were never a thing. They simply didn't tell anyone where they were going and hoped for the best.

And here's the coup de grace to the bank argument: "Take me to the ATM, withdraw all your money, and give it to me."

 

You think it's hard to find people RPing in public now?

 

Removing the robbery limit would turn the server into a dangerous and hostile environment where each illegal player would rob everyone else for everything they've got at the drop of a hat. The map is littered with ATM's in every conceivable location, to the point where you could kidnap someone, march them up to an ATM, force them to hand over every last cent they have, then tell them to lie down and make your getaway. If you think behavior is bad with regards to robberies now, it will become exponentially worse. There is no remedy for this circumstance if we remove the robbery limit.

 

Let's consider a few?

  • ATM Cameras? Masks.
  • Forced CK if a robber is killed during a robbery? All it takes is one lucky score against the player of a police officer who doesn't spend his assets like mad, and you're set for life. They could just purchase an asset transfer "name change" after their successful robbery and then you've got absolutely no potential recourse against what just happened.
  • Security companies? The problem here is the same as with most others - namely, your login times will not always match up. Are you going to stick inside your interior and refuse to leave if you don't have two armed guards with you on the server?

A well-intentioned idea, perhaps, but ultimately a terrible one for this server.

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Def a no. After all, this is a game, you can't compare situations from here to those in real life. In real life, if you rob someone, you can spend your freedom in jail, not get a job after you're out, etc etc. Basically, you're screwing your entire future. In here, if you rob and you get caught, you can always namechange, and start over, but with the same amount of money, cars, houses, etc. My point is, if they change the rule, the whole server will turn into a warzone of robbers vs cops lol, because people will not care if they spend 1-2 hrs in jail for 100/200k, or more. 

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I’m still to meet the first robber that gives me time to properly RP being robbed and typing emotes without them claiming I’m stalling or simply giving me too little time to respond. I never carry around amounts even close to 5k, but if someone does, for whatever reason (that better be a good one) I still wouldn’t like to see it fall into the hands of someone who rp’s terrible and robs because they are poor and a street thug. 

 

Besides that point; hypothetically, do you think it’s realistic for a street thug to make a million off of a single robbery or even at all? It’s simply unrealistic. If someone is dumb enough to carry a million in cash (non RP), it shouldn’t mean another player doing a robbery suddenly gets rich. (“Orale ese, I just rob this guy holmes, had a cold million on him man! We rich!”) 

 

5k is a lot of money from a robbery even in this server’s economy as it’s a large part towards buying a new vehicle or paying a long time of rent or enabling someone to buy a place to live. Now I don’t expect robbers to make 5k every time but I do feel it’s a fair limit, robbers aren’t supposed to get rich as mentioned before.

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Is this some sort of a joke?

 

The rule is in place because there're players who simply cannot control themselves, they'd abuse the others as much as possible and unless such rules are in place, there is no other way to prevent them from doing so.

 

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One of my characters is a loanshark who prefers to handle business with cash and face to face transactions rather than bank transfers. (Gives the loanshark RP some flavour) When hes walking around with a lot of cash hes roleplayed accordingly, I'd hate to have to stop doing this.

 

I already feel like im playing packman when im walking through the city on foot as it is, Dodging those sultans with tinted windows filled with white dudes carrying their licensed firearms.

 

Removing the 5K limit is straight up gonna be shit.

Edited by Silverfish
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2 hours ago, Adero said:

Is this some sort of a joke?

 

The rule is in place because there're players who simply cannot control themselves, they'd abuse the others as much as possible and unless such rules are in place, there is no other way to prevent them from doing so.

 

Yet, at the same time, by having this rule, players who control themselves are punished because of players that can not control themselves. How is that fair? How does that even make any sense?

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21 minutes ago, Shaderz said:

Yet, at the same time, by having this rule, players who control themselves are punished because of players that can not control themselves. How is that fair? How does that even make any sense? 

It's not a "punishment," in the same way that laws preventing you from slapping someone in the face unprovoked is not a punishment. It's a deterrent from being a dick.

 

Forcing someone to give you the entirety of what they've made on the server is an objectively dickish move. In fact, I might go as far as to claim that individuals who want this rule removed likely have less than honorable motivations, unless you can point me to a systemic problem resulting from the rule that's worse than this: on a server with 250+ people, you'll never see more than 10 outside at any given time. That's not good, at all, and it's because there are way too many instances of robbery on the server.

 

I refer you to my post if you'd like an explanation as to the rationale and fairness behind the rule.

Edited by Smilesville
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4 minutes ago, Shaderz said:

Yet, at the same time, by having this rule, players who control themselves are punished because of players that can not control themselves. How is that fair? How does that even make any sense?

It makes perfect sense, Almost anything that has been banned in real life has been banned because a few poeple ruin it for the rest.

The recent bumpstock ban is an example of this.

 

Besides, poeple should roleplay robberies because they enjoy the act of robbing wether they roleplay stealing someones wallet or just take off with his sneakers. The rule is there to limit the "hands up! /b showinv" faggotry.

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Just now, Smilesville said:

It's not a "punishment," in the same way that laws preventing you from slapping someone in the face unprovoked is not a punishment. It's a deterrent from being a dick.

 

Forcing someone to give you the entirety of what they've made on the server is an objectively dickish move. I refer you to my post if you'd like an explanation as to the rationale and fairness behind the rule.

The difference is if you rob more than $5,000 from someone in real life, there's a chance you can escape. If you do the same here, you're reported and subsequently punished. You can not really compare both situations.

 

I agree it's a dickish move, but it happens. Be smart and don't expose yourself out there, the same way you don't go up to a gang crib with a gun in your hand, don't walk outside with lots of cash on you. If it happens, report the case to the police and handle it ICly. This is straight up limiting roleplay because people care too much about their stats and forget what they primarily are here for.

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Agreeing with every point made against this. Too many people running around who just want to rob for the hell of it. Standing outside for more than 5 minutes, without a gun, is asking for it. Stopping at a red light for more than 2 seconds is asking for it.

 

- I got chased for 10 minutes by someone on a bike who wanted to rob my character. He did not fear for his life, as he should have considering how easily a Mesa could run him off the road and paralyze him- and did. The first time, he did not rp it. The second time, it killed him so he ragequit for the night. 

 

- One of my friends was robbed by a ridiculous “/me robs ******.” Followed by accusations of stalling once she started typing a reply, complying but with giving detail. And she was shot dead because it was faster for him. It was in broad daylight in Mirror Park, in front of 10 people.

 

These incidents aren’t exactly rare, and it sucks having to lug cash around if you need to buy something that requires cash on hand instead of taking it from the bank: gun stores, buying car alarms/locks/window tint/GPS, even club entry fees.

 

People can’t control themselves & this rule prevents them from ruining everyone else’s rp so they can feel like a criminal badass.

Edited by Havana
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