Jump to content

Quality and Quantity (of words)


Gambler

Recommended Posts

During my 10 years of roleplay on samp, I've applied for many positions. I've applied for FD, GOV,PD, Helper Positions, Admin position etc. And I've made it most of the times. But what I always noticed is the tendency for application recievers and makers, to push the issue on quantity, and that's why I made it, cause I just wrote and wrote endlessly, to make the paragraphs longer.
Now I know, people want insurance, but speaking from the perspective of director and screenwriter In real life, I'm pretty sure I never wrote more for a short movie proposal, than I ever wrote for application in a videogame. I never stayed in an office for an interview more than 5 minutes, otherwise I would be called off as unclear on what I want. I've been in staff teams long enough to review applications, and i know that other people who reviewed application would rather have the TL:DR version, but also judge by saying, "Cool Effort". Then aftwerwards accepted to be banned by the staff team cause he was judged only on the numbers of letters. 

I brought this topic up because this community is blooming, and showing insane potential. But the effort I have to put in GTA roleplay servers when it comes to applications(excluding here staff positions as they are more of a delicate case), considering the fact that it's a game, it's INSANE compared to what I ever did in real life. Cheers and hopefully this drags some attention cause i wrote alot. ?

Edited by Gambler
Typos
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment

I think this is an interesting subject. Personally, I've been part of the LS:RP staff team and it did take me two applications to make it. From my real life experience, the application itself, doesn't matter if for GTA:W or LS:RP is not exactly long or anything. Any job I have applied for in real life, I spent HOURS (and I mean it) before skype interviews, researching the company and potential interview questions. 

 

Maybe my cover letter or CV was shorter than my staff application but that's it...so I'm surprised you've had a different experience in your work life ?

 

Now, back to issue at hand. I think the bigger problem on other servers was definitely, that you needed friends in the staff team to have people back you up in the application discussions. This I don't find fair and I sincerely hope it's different on GTA:W but seeing the history of many staff members here, I do believe it is different. 

Edited by OfficerCode3
Link to comment
34 minutes ago, OfficerCode3 said:

I think this is an interesting subject. Personally, I've been part of the LS:RP staff team and it did take me two applications to make it. From my real life experience, the application itself, doesn't matter if for GTA:W or LS:RP is not exactly long or anything. Any job I have applied for in real life, I spent HOURS (and I mean it) before skype interviews, researching the company and potential interview questions. 

 

Maybe my cover letter or CV was shorter than my staff application but that's it...so I'm surprised you've had a different experience in your work life ?

 

Now, back to issue at hand. I think the bigger problem on other servers was definitely, that you needed friends in the staff team to have people back you up in the application discussions. This I don't find fair and I sincerely hope it's different on GTA:W but seeing the history of many staff members here, I do believe it is different. 

Yeah, well probably in my line of work I'm more of a pitcher for ideas but anyway, I'm not concerned about staff, that was just an exmaple as it actually is supposed to be hard to get in. But If I want to enjoy the FD, GOV and PD and it takes me 2 weeks to know if I'll start roleplaying with them or not? That's meh.

Edited by Gambler
Link to comment

The only reason they'd prefer not only quality, but quantity (as you say, of words) is to see how fluent the person writes in English. You can't compare a job interview (and most companies will just hire anyone with a pulse) to a game who strives and seeks for competent players.

 

Do you think it'd be easier to assume "This person can type fluent enough English and has a general understanding of role play and the server rules" by reviewing an application with less than paragraph of words/explanation and examples of each rule and term? Or to individuate each applicant from Person A who's clearly not putting in the effort compared to Person B? 

 

In my experience, it's working fine and is a sufficient enough way to see who's not putting in the effort, who's motives are probably to just come on the server and pollute it with garbage RP and break server rules compared to someone who genuinely wants to play, but also meets the standard.

 

Without an application, and without there being high level requirements (a lot of typing) - you'd probably run in to a lot more (than there already is) people who don't even understand basic role play terms and type with broken English.

Link to comment

It comes with the territory of roleplay. The impression more words gives is that the player is more capable and competent than their competitors simply on the basis that it's more effort. In reality, it's incredibly easy to come up with word diarrhea to restate the same thing over and over again if you learn how to do it. 

 

I think applications should focus more on mindset and substance of words than for numerical values. Rather than say "if this guy doesn't type 500 words there's not enough effort," focus moreso on what their intent is.

Link to comment

I wanna tell a quick story, if I may, about the first time I played pen & paper D&D.

 

I sat down with my friend and we talked about the character I was gonna play. We rolled stats, set up equipment and (I thought) we were good to go.

 

Then he asked me what my character's alignment was.

 

I didn't know what that was, so he explained the whole lawful-neutral-chaotic good-neutral-evil concept to me. How it was a way of defining the personality of your character. And I thought it was bullshit. I couldn't pidgin-hole my character like that. Fuck him for making me choose how to RP. We argued.

 

He kept saying the same thing to me over and over. "The alignment is not an obstacle. It's a guide." I didn't get it and refused to pick. We argued.

 

Eventually he caved (which he shouldn't have done) and let me play without an alignment. We did the game and at the end of the evening he said to me, "Your alignment is Neutral-Good." I didn't know why, but accepted it cos it got him off my back.

 

Years later, we're still playing D&D. And I've gotta say, when I make a brand new character with no forethought about it at all, the alignment is the first thing I pick. Is he a hero, a villain, a thief, a knight? I pick an alignment and then build my character around that.

 

My friend was right. It's a guide, not an obstacle.

 

When I joined GTAW I was faced with the character application. My first reaction was that it was bullshit. Why should I have to create a character now, I'm not even in the game. Then I remembered the argument I had with my friend over alignment. And I got it. The application is not an obstacle, it's a guide.

 

It makes you think about your character. Where was she born? What was her childhood like? What were her teenage years like? What is the defining moment that made her the person she is? Why is she in LS? How did she get there? What is she gonna do now she's here?

 

If you sit and think about it, 2 paragraphs is nothing when writing all that down. I could write an entire page on a character, right now, just by answering those questions. Make a person. Make her real.

 

Think about who you want to be in GTAW and the character description will write itself.

Edited by Pan Grama
Link to comment
2 hours ago, bool said:

The only reason they'd prefer not only quality, but quantity (as you say, of words) is to see how fluent the person writes in English. You can't compare a job interview (and most companies will just hire anyone with a pulse) to a game who strives and seeks for competent players.

 

Do you think it'd be easier to assume "This person can type fluent enough English and has a general understanding of role play and the server rules" by reviewing an application with less than paragraph of words/explanation and examples of each rule and term? Or to individuate each applicant from Person A who's clearly not putting in the effort compared to Person B? 

 

In my experience, it's working fine and is a sufficient enough way to see who's not putting in the effort, who's motives are probably to just come on the server and pollute it with garbage RP and break server rules compared to someone who genuinely wants to play, but also meets the standard.

 

Without an application, and without there being high level requirements (a lot of typing) - you'd probably run in to a lot more (than there already is) people who don't even understand basic role play terms and type with broken English.

You're completely right.But isn't the application for joining the server enough to make sure that ther person can make an essay if needed and  fluent in english. I encounter people who start the sentences with lower case, and don't use commas, yet wondering how these people make it past the application. So what I mean is, there is no way of knowing someones true motives, unless you take a leap of faith.

 

1 hour ago, Pan Grama said:

I wanna tell a quick story, if I may, about the first time I played pen & paper D&D.

 

I sat down with my friend and we talked about the character I was gonna play. We rolled stats, set up equipment and (I thought) we were good to go.

 

Then he asked me what my character's alignment was.

 

I didn't know what that was, so he explained the whole lawful-neutral-chaotic good-neutral-evil concept to me. How it was a way of defining the personality of your character. And I thought it was bullshit. I couldn't pidgin-hole my character like that. Fuck him for making me choose how to RP. We argued.

 

He kept saying the same thing to me over and over. "The alignment is not an obstacle. It's a guide." I didn't get it and refused to pick. We argued.

 

Eventually he caved (which he shouldn't have done) and let me play without an alignment. We did the game and at the end of the evening he said to me, "Your alignment is Neutral-Good." I didn't know why, but accepted it cos it got him off my back.

 

Years later, we're still playing D&D. And I've gotta say, when I make a brand new character with no forethought about it at all, the alignment is the first thing I pick. Is he a hero, a villain, a thief, a knight? I pick an alignment and then build my character around that.

 

My friend was right. It's a guide, not an obstacle.

 

When I joined GTAW I was faced with the character application. My first reaction was that it was bullshit. Why should I have to create a character now, I'm not even in the game. Then I remembered the argument I had with my friend over alignment. And I got it. The application is not an obstacle, it's a guide.

 

It makes you think about your character. Where was she born? What was her childhood like? What were her teenage years like? What is the defining moment that made her the person she is? Why is she in LS? How did she get there? What is she gonna do now she's here?

 

If you sit and think about it, 2 paragraphs is nothing when writing all that down. I could write an entire page on a character, right now, just by answering those questions. Make a person. Make her real.

 

Think about who you want to be in GTAW and the character description will write itself.

You missed my point and proved it at the same time. I bet you went on TL:DR mission and said what you wanted out of context. Nowhere i mentioned that applications to join the server are complicated. My whole discussion is that, this is a game, and when I want to roleplay a medic, a detective, a politician, a lawyer, I actually may end up putting way too much work on the respective forums applications, and wait two weeks to even learn If I'll be able to join the faction as novice or not. Too much bureaucracy is the whole point of  this discussion.

Edited by Gambler
Link to comment
43 minutes ago, Gambler said:

I encounter people who start the sentences with lower case, and don't use commas, yet wondering how these people make it past the application. So what I mean is, there is no way of knowing someones true motives, unless you take a leap of faith.

Without an application, and without there being high level requirements (a lot of typing) - you'd probably run in to a lot more (then there already are) people who don't even understand basic role play terms and type with broken English.

Link to comment

There is a fine line between quality and quantity and its all about finding that sweetspot. That is what makes a great application and marks you out as dynamic.

 

Do not think black or white are the only options, think gray. You will both be successful in your pursuits and have time left on your day.

Edited by Arnzeal
Link to comment

Wordy applications aren't a measure of quality. When there is a minimum word requirement what that does is motivate someone to create filler material to meet it. They should stop getting used for most applications(Except server* entry) when it comes to word counts. What matters in applications and writing in general is substance. Being able to write concisely and still make a good point is a skill. Unless it's a diary you're writing for an audience and you want to keep your audience's attention. You don't want to lose it in a wall of text.

 

 The effort put into IRL applications is easily less than what I've seen on RP servers. They also don't have you having to edit codes to fill them in or people nitpicking if you had a double space or not... For the IC stuff it can easily be said that this is just being done to make busy work for the sake of it.  

 

The IC applications and forms is what I really dislike.  There are just better ways to handle those. 

Edited by Momo's Revenge
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...