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Improper Escalation


borhoi

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It's really annoying playing a completely legal character and having to deal with not being able to do so many things just because of how quickly people escalate situations. If someone tries to flirt with Kalani, I feel like I have to play along just so they don't murder me for rejecting them.

 

I do think when DoJ is improved/added, this will change slightly.

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3 hours ago, Kilocon said:

I hear ya,  although I wasn't implying an actual  lifetime sentence.

12 hours ago, Kilocon said:

I think a lot of these situations stem also from the fact that the penalties for first degree,  cold blooded murder, aren't harsh enough.  Three hours in prison doesn't really encourage people to consider the consequences of such actions,  especially with the countdown timer ticking away while offline. 

Saw something similar to this that I agreed with in the "Legal Penalty for a CK" suggestion and such. Basically people have no RP of fear of consequences of harsh crimes because there's no real consequences for them. I think it would take having a very extensive jail sentence (When DoC is implemented probably), or the fear of facing a CK after CKing someone else that would fix this. Only then would there be some motivation not to go straight to first degree murder for stupid situations that in most cases would probably just be a verbal fight or short scuffle irl. Just tired of seeing people go straight to hard crimes without thoughts of how it would play out IRL and effect their character. (Their personality, their freedoms, their AGE - i've literally seen people with murder charges still rping in their 20s out of jail, and so fort.)

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This is just me explaining the issue from a staff point of view so those responding can have more information rather than guessing on how things are handled. This is my own opinion on this topic and does not represent the overall opinion of the staff team or any individual staff members in it.

 

Typically situations that are improperly escalated are punishable. Any decent admin can tell when a player is seeking a reason to kill after a proper investigation is conducted into a DM report. Due to how things are in-game, a proper investigation can rarely be conducted. We need detailed information from those involved and we need to gather evidence such as screenshots or video from both sides and in some cases, check the RP logs. All of this takes a lot of time so DM reports are typically moved to the forums. In a forum report, both sides can be obtained properly and an admin can make a fairer judgement. In a lot of cases, there's more reasoning behind a reason to shoot than you might originally think. On the other hand, players should be expected to really think about why they are going to kill another character as well as the consequences behind it.

 

What happens when we tell players take it to the forums is the forum report rarely gets posted. This is either due to the reporting player having some time to cool off and no longer want to report or just being too lazy to write up a report. There's even some cases where players report others for DM to try to get them into trouble and not because they believe they were actually deathmatched. There are of course exceptions to these cases, but this is what happens in my own experience.

 

As a result of players not reporting these situations on the forums, there are players that kill for poor reasons or poorly escalate a situation and see it as acceptable. An admin questions them in-game about the reason to kill and the roleplay leading up to it. The admin instructs the reporting party to go to the forums. Then the player that got reported thinks their reason to kill was fine because they were not punished in-game at that time. 

 

The burden is on the players to make a report when they feel they were deathmatched. Admins cannot be expected to have the logs up on their second monitor when dealing with reports just to investigate every time someone was killed. We get more informal complaints (complaining on Discord, complaining privately to admins, complaining on the forums) about deathmatching than we do actual player reports, roleplay quality reports and in-game reports about it. Once this changes, you'll see a difference in the amount of players that kill for poor reasons.

 

An alternative is to file a Roleplay Quality Report to Player Management. Most of what we do in Player Management is not seen publicly due to the fact that we approach players in private about their overall behavior and roleplay quality. However, we do our best to handle the reports we receive quickly and to help players improve. 

 

Players who do not fear the consequences of going to prison or fail to roleplay it appropriately when they do go to prison can be reported to Player Management. We have dealt with reports on this in the past. Like I said above, this relies on players actually making the effort to report someone. We cannot see everything so bringing an issue like that to our attention will help us deal with it.

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I agree that their should be proper escalation but sometimes shit gets out of hand. I think this falls more on the lines of common courtesy. Like if we get into a fight fight ICLY and my character loses, I'm more likely going to RP a grudge. But if I just straight up shoot your character that's a lack of common courtesy and a disregard for keeping up what could possibly be good roleplay. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just to play devil's advocate here; the danger in imposing a blanket rule like this, as opposed to the way business is currently handled is that it forces other players to RP inside set parameters. Maybe that 17 year-old uneducated gang banger WOULD shoot someone over something trivial. Allowing admins and players to have their inputs on why they made the decisions that they did for their characters is paramount in allowing a certain degree of freedom in roleplaying, while giving admins the ability to mitigate what is for lack of a better term shitty excuses. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/23/2019 at 6:05 AM, Voodoo said:

Just to play devil's advocate here; the danger in imposing a blanket rule like this, as opposed to the way business is currently handled is that it forces other players to RP inside set parameters. Maybe that 17 year-old uneducated gang banger WOULD shoot someone over something trivial. Allowing admins and players to have their inputs on why they made the decisions that they did for their characters is paramount in allowing a certain degree of freedom in roleplaying, while giving admins the ability to mitigate what is for lack of a better term shitty excuses. 

What if someone roleplays a mentally ill person that kills whoever looks at them? Maybe realistically such a person would kill over something as trivial as someone looking at them, but I think the common courtesy rule takes care of it.

 

Overall, I am not supporting this suggestion.

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On 4/23/2019 at 4:05 AM, Voodoo said:

Maybe that 17 year-old uneducated gang banger WOULD shoot someone over something trivial.

57 minutes ago, DeadlyMask said:

What if someone roleplays a mentally ill person that kills whoever looks at them?

The problem with both of these examples is that they are BAD RP characters. It's the same mentality as "I can drive however I like because my character is a street racer." It's all of the action with none of the consequence.

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Just now, Pan Grama said:

The problem with both of these examples is that they are BAD RP characters. It's the same mentality as "I can drive however I like because my character is a street racer." It's all of the action with none of the consequence.

You didn't understand my point, I am not supporting this suggestion, that's why I made up the mentally ill example above, to illustrate that the common courtesy rule is enough.

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My issue with this is enforcing the rule you're suggesting.

"A player will not escalate to killing another player over a situation their character would not realistically respond that way to in real life."

Anyone can simply say their character is insane and thus have a reason to respond erratically and violently when there wasn't much justification for it. That's why at the end of the day this is down to admins' judgement to ask the right questions and find out whether this falls under Deathmatch, which is a current, existing rule, or not.

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