bartman

Name: Obama Comment: I hope cliff hunter hangs in his cell

username: FreedomLover74 Comment: BLAINE COUNTY WAS ILLEGALLY ABSORBED BY LOS SANTOS COUNTY IN THE 90'S BECAUSE THE LIBERAL COMMUNISTS OF VINEWOOD WANT TO TAKE OUR POLITICAL POWER AND REPRESENTATION. I WILL NEVER RECOGNIZE NO MAYOR OF LOS SANTOS OVER MY BELOVED HOMETOWN AND IF THEY WANT TO COME OER HERE TO TAKE MY GUNS I SAY COME AN' TAKE EM.

Username: FREEDOMFIGHTER74 Comment: **Automatically deleted for hate speech**

That's not how federalism works lol

congratulations warden

6d chess right here This was clearly all a play by @Wildcat to lead SADCR

OUR REIGN MAY BE SHORT BUT HISTORY WILL REMEMBER THIS NIGHT

48% 48% LET'S GOOOO NA NA NA

I'm all for a NA server if we're calling this "the EU Server"

Ok.

Let me rephrase my former statement regarding unknown peak times: Server peaks closer to 9-10PM GMT, usually. We can all agree on this. By three-five hours later, it's down to 400-500 usually. But purely on anecdotes, we can't know if that 400-500 person server is mostly Americans logging in, or Americans who logged on earlier in the peak staying logged in. It's irrational to presume one way or the other without having numbers. This makes the "Server peak is 8-11PM!!!" argument really hard to fight without stats on where players actually are.

Over 70% of Europe's population is GMT+0 or GMT+1. I know we have a higher than real life representation of eastern europeans, but you can't tell me they make up anywhere close to a majority lol. Particularly not when Central and Eastern Europe now has multiple native language GTAW servers (Italy, Russia, etc) that'd be pulling from this number. Servertime and real life time are not tied together. They do not have to be. Moving 8-11PM to even 7-10PM would still allow Europeans to log in at their times, still give a vast statistical majority of Europeans at least some night, and not at all change server peaks which again are probably tied in with Americas. There's still no proof the "server peak" is such a huge gap between Europeans and not. We don't even have statistics on when the server peak actually is, and when the dropoff is, past anecdotes of when people see it. All I'm saying, brother, is give peace a chance and let's take a look at it. let's open GTAW north america and see where it goes, lol. (this was sarcasm pls don't ban)

It's really not about opening times, sure it helps, but it's the fact that day vs night offers fundamentally different and differently engaging playstyles and RP opportunities. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I am saying it's worth looking into. Playing at night virtually nonstop for years has led to people I know literally saying they can't play for more than 2-3 hours at a time because unless they're in some kind of action, it borderline tries putting you to sleep. That's just the natural reaction to staring at night for hours every time you log in with no break. Asking server management to take a serious look at where players actually are and see if there's any way to make the time zone more closely represent where people actually are shouldn't be seen as a cardinal sin.

Okay, now you're strawmanning. The point of the suggestion is to roll the prime time back 2-3 hours to where it'd benefit more players. Most Europeans are on GMT-0 or GMT+1 and would hardly feel this imo. West coast Americans would still be just as screwed as Moscow timed europeans, but we can make it benefit the maximum amount of people possible - that spot between GMT+1 and GMT-5 where most of the players are likely living. Again, strawman. Did you miss the part where "server'd be dead" was on LSRP and RCRP, or did you deliberately misquote me? GTAW has different expectations where the playerbase is still active later, but everyone on 'later' never sees sunlight. American players logging in earlier still only get maybe an hour of sun, if any at all, because 4-5PM EST is still 8-10PM server time. They do this to be on when their European friends are, not because they get more sun, lol. No one's asking to change that. Peak time wouldn't be nuked if it was rolled back two hours, it'd just contain a more dynamic mix of night and day. I am immensely sorry you personally would be disadvantaged by this, but it doesn't mean it's not worth looking into. Management's stance of "lol no" without even offering any real argument outside of "50% of players are European" has been a stifling point for non-euro players for years.

Most of the playerbase is high school or college aged, so get home around 3-4PM local time. And many Americans will actually deliberately time to get on earlier in the day if possible because if they get on at 8PM it's literally 3-6AM server time. I'm sorry you individually would be negatively affected by this, but you can't ask all non-European players to "make the sacrifice" for your benefit without at least convincing us it's mathematically the best timezone. Yes, it is, see above. Americans generally deliberately log on earlier in the day whenever possible. It's always been like this. Hell I remember when I was school aged in LSRP/Owl/RCRP/etc that I'd log on right after school at 3PM my time because if I logged on at 7-9PM the server'd be dead. And those servers were a lot more Eurobased population wise, but over a decade of this happening you can't equate server time to "when it's only this timezone on", because most American players have this log on early function programmed. And most American players have European friends; it's a lot easier for Americans to log in at 5PM to see their friends than ask their european friends to stay up till 2AM to see them. "Peak Time" being almost exclusively European really isn't something I buy without seeing stats of it. So, again, in theory if Server Management charted the timezone of every player, and drew a graph of where the average player would be, would you argue that's not fair because you personally wouldn't benefit from it?

"EU Peak Time" at 8PM is 3-5PM EST, when many East coast players are also logging in, particularly on weekends. By 9-10PM server time a lot of Americans are logged in too. You can not claim the 700 players is 100% Europeans. Just like not all of the 400-500 players on during US peak is all Americans. As for "all players voted", this is why I asked for statistics, not just a poll, though the poll is relevant in having an idea. Very eastern european blocks, perhaps, but again, I'm not sure how this is entirely relevant. GMT-2 would even be a marked improvement without being as negative towards eastern europe. Again, I refuse to accept Europeans are the "VAST MAJORITY" of the population without statistics. This isn't LSRP. Also you are aware they can adjust what time in game it gets dark, yeah? I'd bet $20 on that there's more players on GMT-7 or GMT-8 than GMT+3. Statistics would, again, be an important differentiation in identifying where a 'middle point' can go, if anywhere. The idea should, again, to evaluate where players actually are and try to cater to as many as possible. It may not be "middle of the atlantic", it may be as simple as GMT-1. I'm sorry that looking at this is a scary concept to some. Server management could, if they wanted, relatively easily figure out where most players are and literally plot it all into a map that'd show us where the "average" GTAW player is. The timezone should be set to that point. If that's in Europe? I'll eat my words, but I'd bet it's closer to somewhere between GMT-1 and GMT-4

...The poll does matter? The entire argument is everyone who isn't playing in Europe doesn't see any sunlight. The poll is entirely relevant in determining how big the problem is and if it's worth addressing. GMT-2 or -3 would make peak server time 5-10PM, which still enables most of the population to see day and night. Implying crime doesn't happen in broad daylight is a logical fallacy from the start, it 100% does lol. And even then, most European players would still get night, since "peak time" would now be evening into night instead of just flat out night. Clubbing at 6PM isn't any worse than doing business at 2AM, lol. If anything it's far less bad, I 100% see clubs open that early irl. Again, GMT+3 hardly represents where most of the European playerbase is. Statistics on where players are is 100% relevant in determining where the timezone /should/ be. And how is this fucked but the half of the playerbase not playing in Europe being 5-9 hours behind is fine? Because it doesn't affect you?

>makes compelling argument to try and make the timezone benefit the maximum number of people possible. >Yeah, but it makes me specifically have an awkward timezone, so fuck everyone else. Also lol welcome to the daily reality of the 45% of the playerbase who's already 6 or 8 hours behind server time. I'm willing to bet the server has more people playing in the Americas than on Moscow/Lithuania time, particularly when RU players have their own GTAW server. This isn't about shafting any particular person, it's about making it as fair as possible for the maximum amount of people possible. Any decision will inadvertently put some people on weird timezones, but server management can mathematically look at what would benefit the maximum amount of people possible instead of the blatantly eurocentric model of "GMT lol".

I literally provided examples on how it's not that inconvenient for either but okay.

If I remember the poll right, cause there was a poll, it was like a 55 or 60/40 split with a majority being european, but it's far from a controlling majority. At least 40% of the player base is US or "other" timezoned. Excluding these players from a gameplay experience as simple as seeing the sun is a mistake that any future GTAW competitor would be smart to capitalize on. A compromise can be worked that'd ensure the maximum amount of players possible get some mix of night and day. Shifting to GMT-3 or even GMT-2 would be a decent compromise and not place Europeans or US timezoned players are too far of a disadvantage. Californians like @TheSenate are 8 hours behind servertime, despite the fact the server's allegedly set where he lives. Australians and oceanic timezones are even worse. He's genuinely never seeing the sun, and Australian players are never seeing night. Europeans (at least, Western Europeans) get both in ample quantity. The current model only benefits europeans. If you were to set it to GMT -3, here's what it'd actually mean (Forgive if my math's off) Assuming most players log in around 5-7PM local time on most weekdays, after work/school/dinner/whatever. Most Europeans would be logging in at 3-5PM server time. This'd still give them night, particularly on weekends. Americans would now be in a position to log in at 6-9PM server time. It's not a huge jump, but if you make the sun set at say, 9PM, it's something to give them sunlight. They'd be getting lots of sunlight on the weekends, something the current 5-8 hours ahead of American timezones barely allows even on weekends unless you literally hop on at Noon. Australians/oceanic timezones would now be logging in at 4-6AM instead of 7-9AM. They'd at least get some nighttime where right now most of them get none and have to play almost exclusively in morning hours. I frankly see this as better for everyone, and all it'd mean is Europeans need to give up 2-3 hours of nightclubbing hours that they get back anyway cause most of that stuff's only open on weekends when most EU timezoned players are on till 2-3AM anyway. Management's insistence on not even allowing real discussion on compromises like this when server management is almost exclusively European is not healthy for the community, and why this is indeed an "unpopular opinion"

But there are two very viable solutions in the suggestion thread @TheSenate posted that was conveniently locked within 5 minutes: 1. Just have less nighttime. 18 hours of daylight, 6 of night, with a hour or two on either end in the twilight sunrise/sunset mode. Sure it's less night for nightclubs and some gang action, but like, "crime doesn't happen in the day" has never really been true lol. 2. Move to a halfway point timezone, like GMT-3. This would only be a 3 hour difference for most European players, and not make a huge difference, but would immensely help most North American and Oceanic players by at least promising a few hours of daylight. Or both!

Good god yes please. It's seriously about time these suggestions stop getting shouted down.

The refusal to even consider adjusting the server timezone from GMT is a massive mistake that leads to shafting every north american and oceanic timezoned player with doing business/playing at 2AM server time. I know people who legitimately haven't seen sunlight in game in months. I'd legitimately play a NA server over the main GTAW server at this point if a "licensed" one popped up like the RU or Italian servers. It's that bad. At the very least lower the amount of hours where it's nighttime. Or plop it on some timezone in like the middle of the Atlantic that'd meet halfway like Bermuda (GMT-3) or something.

Pennsylvania v. Mimms allows cops to pull anyone out of a car (including passengers) on traffic stops they deem to be a safety risk, and pat them down for weapons. Nothing except weapons. Problem is this is very rare IRL because it is very invasive. It's more common IG but it's very hard to argue if say, the driver pops back with prior weapons felonies.