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Marcus.

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  1. Hello everyone! After long deliberation, I finally decided to kick off this discussion. It is in regards to something that I, and I hope a few others really hold dear, Aviation. I have created a rather long post/document detailing some aspects of how aviation usually is handled, but I believe it is better to keep it short and simple. So what I wish to discuss with everyone here is: How to create a more realistic and more enjoyable aviation experience on GTA:World I need to make a few things clear before we start this off however, and I would appreciate everyone to read these few bullets points: I am not advocating to have ATC staffed 24/7 I am not advocating to have complete realistic procedures regarding taxiing, take-off, approach, final, and touch down I am not advocating to have people sit through a 4 to 6 hour session of someone explaining them how to operate an aircraft I am advocating to create an enjoyable, yet realistic environment for those of us who are interested in aviation In-order to kick-start this discussion here are a few suggestions on how aviation and the roleplay around could be improved: Standardize communication on the central frequency through legislation Standardize the registration of aircraft (fixed and rotary) to FAA standards (i.e. NXXXXX, X being numbers and letters) With the help of the community, create and establish a flightschool ran by players, for the players (teaching the bare bone basics of radio communication and aircraft operation) References for this topic are:
  2. Since I assume you are Ottra on Discord, I'll reiterate my points in a bit more depth as to why I feel that a military or even national guard/reservists corps are not necessary. The biggest issue with having a military or even paramilitary faction/organization most of the times are the issues of what to do in off-time. Which as far as this topic is concerned is most likely going to be 99.9% of the time, unless Los Santos suddenly gets hit by a CAT5 Hurricane. Unless people really fancy having drills day-in day-out or file paperwork regarding entry & exit of the facility. There is not much going on, you can I suppose consider doing regular training however, that would require other parts to function which leads me nicely into my second point. Infrastructure, such a faction requires more infrastructure than the LSPD and LSFD combined I would say. Let alone which vehicles they would have at their disposal to operate them and how likely/unlikely they would be utilized. Furthermore, it would require not basic, but utmost support scriptwise to function somewhat decently including trainings. Next point would be, that the US Armed Forces are (unless specifically granted) not allowed to operate on US soil, hence there was a huge debacle PR wise when a PMC was allowed to operate in the aftermath of a Hurricane but the armed forces were not to their fullest extend.
  3. Whether a vehicle is "better" at evading police or not should not influence the price. Going with this logic, motorcycles and scooters should be the most expensive vehicles to buy, since they virtually are unstoppable unless you gravely endanger the rider of one. Now the arguments for the classic versions of some cars, as the name indicates it's a classic and while it may not be an old timer my earlier argument for why these cars should be more expensive still is the most realistic approach. If you find a vehicle of an older generation that is highly sought after, you have to pay more than premium to buy it in pristine condition, otherwise you are mostly left with a piece of junk that requires years of dedication to restore. A sensible price point can be sought by factoring in different things, as iterated above by Ribsey, Conway and I.
  4. Another issue with the valuation of cars, specifically in GTA, is the lack of distinct features one offers over another, aside from obvious characteristics such as top speed, acceleration and handling. For example, the lack of differentiation in sound systems, whether it has an AC and such. All these elements are something I consider before purchasing a car in real life. Does it feature automated AC or has a sunroof, etc. There are millions of features cars from reputed manufacturers offer, that are simply not as relevant in GTA as they are in real life. As Conway said too, the general player may never had their own car or went out and bought one for themselves. When I bought a second hand vehicle IG, I think the person I bought it from was rather surprised when asked, whether the brakes where from reputable brand such as Brembo and whether they were carbon or not. Same with the engine, I specifically talked about whether the car was chipped or whether the engine software was modified to achieve the potential it has. My character specifically opted for a Schafter (not the V12) because it was affordable and fit within the constraints given, and because I drew the comparison to real life. It features characteristics found on newer C-class models as well as the all new A-class of Mercedes which are affordable cars in their respective variants. In order to valuate cars properly on GTA:W you have to consider the average wealth the player base has, compare it to what a vehicle of similar kind costs in real life, and adjust the inflation accordingly. As well as seed out vehicles that are relatively affordable when looking at the real world counterparts, but have much better performance stats in the game. Though overall, yes some of the newer vehicles should have their prices lowered for the sake of availability and some of the older vehicles such as the classic versions of the Sentinel, based on older BMW M3 models should have theirs increased respectively since they are rare to come by, or if you are lucky enough with a hefty price tag for pristine conditions.
  5. Marcus.

    PK and CK

    This is something I can come to terms with, though it needs to be more elaborate on certain parts. The main part I am looking at in this regard would be, shamefully enough, it is not always someone or barely ever someone with relatively low hours logged. The obvious rulebreakers perse are not the main issue, since they are easily dealt with and usually swiftly as well. It is those who do it through what some may call character development. It's the people who try and actually do, find loopholes and call it character development. Hence it must be the utmost priority to minimize the chances of it happening. Though I may suggest in consideration of this topic the following: Establish a specific set of rules, independent from the current in-game rules, with the sole focus of creating a new, more immersive experience. This particular set should also clearly define what can/has to be considered a player-kill and what can/has to be considered a character kill. For example: A player-kill may derive from a player unknowingly happening upon roleplay that resulted in his/her death. (For example entering an establishment with no obvious signs of a shooting inside, and upon entering being shot & killed by one of the participating parties) A character-kill may derive from a player knowingly acting against rational thought. (For example a player running towards, as opposed to away from a shooting. A player who has been stopped by police after a pursuit for a minor offense, such as being given a fine, opening fire upon the police forces on scene.) Mind you these are just examples and the definitions are just something I made up relatively quickly without much forethought but hopefully enough to clarify my intentions. Also players should be subject to x amount of deaths per a certain period before staff reviews the situation, supposing the logs of the server are available and can clearly show what has happened for this death to occur. (i.e. chatlogs of the player who died and the killer, weapon used, damage dealt and where)
  6. Marcus.

    PK and CK

    We agree that the status quo is far from perfect, indeed. We also are advocating different sides, I have always been on the legal side of things and know how to avoid trouble and have always put an emphasis on character development hence I am so attached to mine. It stems back from when I first created him, and the memories which are tied to it. I also bring up the examples or disagree with others because throughout my times in RP communities I basically have seen it all. I once too advocated an CK only system, though I have seen what it does and it is not fun to see a community fall apart from within. Though I am certain @1357 and you and I can discuss this without going up in flames, the lack of mimic and other features normally observed in such situations is sadly not present in written form, and I refuse to use emojis in a serious discussion.
  7. Marcus.

    PK and CK

    I assure you it is not my intention to come across hostile, or even aggressive or attacking towards you. I have merely argued against your points. Though I will apologize if it came across as that, it was not my intention to attack you personally or act in hostility towards you. The only issue I have is with what you declare as a flaw of a player, when this sentiment is within humans to help others who seemingly are in need.
  8. Marcus.

    PK and CK

    Basically my previous posts summed up. Thank you. This is why I am advocating the middle ground perse, an every death is a CK scenario won't solve any of the issues we have right now, nor will remaining with the current one. You have two extremes colliding in this topic. Frankly speaking, there is no best way to solve the issue. To give any and all PKs more impact, whilst still retaining the option for permanent death. The solutions I can come up with would be a logistical nightmare for the staff team, and the other would be the "shotgun" method (aka if a player is PK'ed all their stats money, etc, are halved).
  9. Marcus.

    PK and CK

    Please... You are calling something a flaw but seemingly don't understand it's definition. Every SINGLE human on EARTH has flaws. Some might pick up hitchhikers, others won't. Some make great friends out of these experiences, other's don't it's fine if a player decides they'd pick a random person up on the street, if they get into trouble they'll have to deal with the consequences one way or another. Plus hitchhikers barely ever exist anymore in the era of Uber, car-sharing and such. Uber literally is hitchhiker vers 2.0 and yes I do use that constantly. It's the same thing with Tinder, you match random strangers you have no idea about but accept the risk and still do it. So there goes that. The majority of people in online communities engaging into any and all activities do so, in order to escape their life at least for some time and occupy their mind with other things than thinking about their life. This is what was meant, and that's why games are great. And I wonder why... (they all either reverted back or ended up closed). And no, comparing GTA:W to other games which offer the opportunity of RP is not apples vs oranges because they run different systems. They all fall back on the classical principles of roleplay. Evidently through various games, spanning decades at this point it has not worked, it very well should be a deciding factor especially in a niche section of gaming. The audience for RP, whilst surely it has spiked because of exposure, is still not comparable to factual sales numbers of GTA V, this is mainly voice RP though! Classical text roleplay is an even smaller amount of a very limited audience on GTA V. It is not. Rule 1.0 Common Courtesy Rule 2.0 Powergaming the drawing a gun against police officer examples would apply here. It would be unrealistic and failure to roleplay fear accordingly if they were to engage a notorious cartel on their own to save their friend. Despite that, I would go so far and argue it is non-RP anyway since one individual lacks resources for such acts to even find out where the kidnappers are, and the whole ordeal. Rule 4.0 Deathmatch - if someone just shoots someone because they are a hardened ACAB 187 thug for no reason whatsoever this applies. Also the last quote directly contradicts your previous examples, so where exactly do you draw the line of what you think is THE issue, and what you wish to leverage to further your own agenda? First you say there's thugs who'd pull the trigger on a fly that's flying past them the wrong way, then you row back and say it CAN be justified. Sorry but I don't want to follow this logic. Same with the 007 example of the kidnapping and such. I am certainly for easing up on the restrictions surrounding CKs, but I and seemingly many others have no desire to lose a character they've potentially played with for years at this point and not only it created sentimental value but also has monetary value for time (I've know people who've taken time off of work to do the stuff they like such as teach police academy students, lead swat operations, create a fully functional government system, the list goes on) for us. There is much at stake and your suggestion that every death == is a CK is simply put too radical of a change. Death's wouldn't be IC anymore too, they'd become OOC. Not because staff has to administrate that, but due to it fueling hatred, it fueling all sorts of negative emotions and it will lead to a grand shitshow. Going back to my previous example, my character with no affiliation to any faction whatsoever, goes out of his/her apartment and get's shot in the head and he's gone forever. Later through some digging and such, it is revealed this character death was motivated because I, the individual behind the screen, posted something on a topic or in discord or anywhere that didn't fit them well. Is it metagaming? Proof that it was, almost impossible. Was it motivated through emotions on the OOC level? Even harder to proof. The only thing you can do is claim it was deathmatching, which would have some substance to it, though even then it would be a 50/50 depending on which situation the other players make up to save their image. See where this can go? And I will repeat myself, the honeymoon phase will be AMAZING it has always been that, but it will go away, it will go wrong, something inevitable will, all it needs is one player crossed on the wrong side for whatever reason by anyone to set off a chain of events that ultimately can, and has been the, cause of many RP server shutdowns. As soon as that feeling of amazing'ness fades and the old boredom sets in, issues will arise.
  10. Marcus.

    PK and CK

    Issues related to very certain parts of roleplay, basically the cops vs robbers aspect. You have these sort of people in the real world too, and as a matter of fact 95% of hitch hikers are not psychopaths who will murder you. Reasons why not every death should be a CK: - Sentimental value of the stories and character that has been created - This is and will always remain a game (escapism) - It has been tried on so many platforms GMOD, SA-MP, MTA, even WoW and has never worked properly - Stupidity of other players - "I don't give a shit" attitude of other players - OOC drama - continue this list with the basic dynamics of online communities Report those then? Clearly there is something going wrong with their interpretation of rules and literally you are contradicting your own statement here in the first sentence. What if your supposed change, doesn't effect them cause they simply put, dont give a shit? Yea, players who might have developed their characters for ages are losing theirs over someone who hasn't. Second sentence, report them if they try to be a superhero. It will not be a better roleplay experience, yes for the first few weeks, maybe months. Then the honeymoon phase is OVER. People will go figure out ways how to cheat the system in their favor, voiding CKs, or getting CK's with little to no reason other than he/she was allowed and could. At least now people need to think of a somewhat justifiable reason, with your suggestion someone could just come around the corner for no reason and pop your head-off in broad daylight and all progress you have made with your character has been lost because someone felt they'd hold down RMB and press LMB once. Whilst ignoring all the flaws your suggested system has and have been brought up by other members of the community. Certain situations should warrant CKs automatically no questions there, but every death? For any stupid reason? No. I come here to relax and get my mind occupied by something else than constantly worrying about a virtual well-being when I do not even come close to areas with high gang activities or avoid hotspots of crime on purpose.
  11. Interesting indeed, I might be able to contribute something to it. Though, I will have to read over it as a whole and see if some parts are already in place or not. Definitely a step forward regardless.
  12. For me it wasn't even about the police officers deciding the fine, that's definitely out of the question. It is more important to consider if these fines were to be implemented to which "bank account", I'll call it like that, go to. I.E. Police Officer John Doe arrests Jane Doe for Assault with a Deadly Weapon & First Degree Murder. The fines for these two charges are set as $50,000.00 each (hypothetically speaking of course) thus coming to a total of $100,000.00. Would these $100,000.00 go towards the LSPD's "bank account" and depending on how the script handles it maybe increase the pay of the arresting officer, or everyone in the faction? Or would they go to a "bank account" owned by the State of San Andreas/City Govt (preferably of course an account setup for easy access for Judges/Court staff who if appealed successfully can refund the amount deducted with little to no outside help from Server Staff)? Frankly I believe the method of having a state owned "bank account" would be preferable in this case, though even then it may require a overhaul of how arrests and the according procedures are handled. What I would really love to see, I always wanted it, a server pull off is to have two separate prisons. One county jail where suspects are held till a preliminary hearing by a judge (to decide if the person is allowed bail or not, as well as the future proceedings). This could play very well with the aforementioned District Attorney system and an "adjustment" in the fines, as well as giving court officials and lawyers something to do in the game.
  13. I have read the entire thread don't worry, otherwise I would have not voiced my opinion. Do I disagree with the statements made by the staff? Yes. I want you guys to enjoy the scenes too, but I have to agree with you I absolutely have misconstrued some of the points you and everyone raised here without fully considering the context they were written in mind with. However, I also hope you understand the point where I am coming from, that to some extend you can also dictate and write a scenario for other people and maybe get them to enjoy it more, even if its just a basic GSW. And you also have the knowledge about the matter to say what is right and what is wrong, which you could use to create an immersive scene for you and everyone else. But definitely no hard feelings from my side.
  14. All of your points? We do that already. The only time I ever see robomedic RP is when the injured player simply can't be bothered to roleplay, or doesnt answer us Regarding point 1 of the last quote. Nor have I the desire to diminish you to that. Regarding point 2 of the last quote. That should be followed up by administrative consequences, that is sub-par and unacceptable. Regarding point 3 of the last quote. Liaise with PD Staff Officers or Faction Management and have that sorted out. I personally have always enjoyed roleplaying with FD as police officer previously, especially when it became extremely immersive even over the most trivial matter, such as a broken ankle. Now for the rest of the quotes, to keep it short and simple. For the first quote, it seems rather like you can make it enjoyable. But is immediately contradicted by the second quote, and that is where I came in from originally. Why do you only show us the basics? And I've asked that before and never received an answer, what is more enjoyable for you a basic GSW with little to no engagement, or a fully immersed scene where everyone does their part? I guess I know the answer already. Third quote with context it is quite clear, without it makes it look quite strange really. If a player can't be bothered to roleplay, I'd still give my best to at least shine even if the other party does the bare minimum. That's the exact attitude that might be an issue. Are you maybe wasting your time? Sure. Did you enjoy showing off your knowledge and practicality to the surroundings? Probably? Fourth quote, I would say you are more than qualified to do that actually. A normal player does not know everything about medical treatments so give them at least an opportunity to maybe dive deeper into it, even when they are just patients. And this is the patient attitude that needs to go. Yes, it is game, but you expect proper roleplay on other scenes, FD expects it here. So treat them as you would like to be treated and give them some entertainment.
  15. I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that I was saying emergency services in real life do not have guidelines to follow. I am merely coming in from an outsider point of view and thinking to myself, and articulating it in written form here, that instead of blaming the players with accusations, which may or may not be true (truth be told I believe you and Fragg that it is a common occurrence). Though the attitude or at least the felt attitude from multiple FD staff here is, we can't be bothered because ninety some percent of the cases we deal with suck, thus the rest well be treated equally (pardon my french) shit from our side. Yes, I truly well understand you get fed up with non-responsiveness, inability and whatever else may there be. Heck, I've dealt with it so many times from a police side of things, or government side of things so you don't need to tell me what it is like. But I always tried to make the roleplay more engaging, interesting, if not better for the other party. Was it welcomed? Surely was, I can say that, people were surprised that a cop would not ask for their license and stuff when pulling someone over, and instead just have a little chitchat because the car seemed cool. Did some people simply ignore my motivations to create a better environment? Absolutely, the situation was as you described too a simple one-liner of "Check my ID already and piss off". But at least I can say, hey I tried! This situation needs solving, and many concepts have been tried. From forcing CKs unto players, to basically have no regulation regarding what needs to be roleplayed as what exactly. Though, think about what you just wrote? The first part about regardless of your efforts they want to die for whatever reason surely is something you can bring up with admins and argue the case that there is no intent to roleplay properly. This cannot be solved differently from my perspective. The second part of your statement, you say most again. I am about hundred percent sure that you have not met every single player on the server to make this judgement call. Sure, the point of your argument was a different one, but I am just going to be nitpicking here. That shootings occur regularly in very specific areas with very specific roleplayers is sort of a no-brainer. It's obvious why and how it happens but your approach to these situations is as stated multiple times at this point in my eyes wrong. It's funny that you say that... In particular: "FD have probably some of the highest standards of RP on the server. We are proud of that and are in no way shape or form going to lower our RP standards for the sake of some time. End of." Which is basically what the last few replies were, at least, hinting at if not arguing for to lower the RP standards for GSW situations because it's just a "waste of time". I permitted myself to paraphrase certain parts but that is basically what is being written here. Whereas I am advocating to invest a bit more time into situations and try and create an enjoyable atmosphere. Neither am I arguing to grab your handy guidebook and throw it out of the window for procedures, and how things are supposed to be done. I am arguing for throwing your "mental" guidebook out of the window in regards to attitude when approaching a GSW/situation. It seems to me that a few of you think you are mere slaves when it comes to saving people's lives. You are not. You are supposed to enjoy this in your off and leisure time, hence for me I'd try and be creative with the RP I create, I get thrown into, or join in.
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