Moonsong

Yeah, that's correct. I tend to delete my characters most of the time, as the assets usually weren't a good fit from one to the next and I honestly don't care much for assets tbh. Most players however, namechange to keep their assets if they don't care for the newbie grind. Which is understandable but fines aren't covered in this example. A better option as @Thurston Howl and myself have suggested, would be to have fines PAID automatically from balances and (as an addition to that suggestion) asset values upon namechange. For example, a fine is 30k, but they only have 15. That would be paid automatically and they'd have to choose an asset to sell back to the system to cover the remaining difference before they could namechange. The remainder would go into their balance. This to me, sounds like a fair consequence.

This is what I suggested instead earlier, but was gaslit. It's the only sensible option. If they are literally unable to pay, THEN they can request admin permission if their reason is good enough. If they were force CKed by their faction or through an application, that'd also be a good enough reason. If a character can pay a fine, absolutely no reason why they should not. For those saying it doesn't effect anyone's roleplay, that is also wrong. Because it does, the person who issued the fine can't then arrest you for failing to pay it. That and the fact that the money from the fines isn't distributed to legal factions as a result of you not paying. It directly effects whole factions, at least when it comes to larger fines.

Did I say they would over a 5k fine? No, but other fines? Absolutely they would and you know it. Stop twisting the narrative, my other posts are entirely irrelevant to the discussion. Stop being a dick

I said I'd still encourage people to report actual rulebreakers wherever possible on the off-chance they have history and that you get someone handling your report who has a backbone. Not that it would always do any good 🤣 A lot of punishments handed out even for blatant and repeated offences are honestly laughable. I totally agree that a lot of people would think it's pointless to bother, but it's why so many rulebreakers go unnoticed. Consistent, meaningful punishments would soon change all that.

I remember for a time there was almost a gold rush of people camping the docks for truckers to rob them in blacked out vehicles without even caring to consider how secure a busy industrial port would be. When you did challenge it, of course you got the "But it happens irl" or "It happens rl here's a video to prove it" yet in most cases of industrial robbery and burglary, robbers know EXACTLY what they're going after, where to find it and the tools they need to steal what they want. As is the case with most real life muggings. the robber usually knows the victim and has SEEN something that they want or have seen something that makes the robbery worth the risk. Yeah some of the crimes are pretty brazen but targets aren't usually random like they are on GTAW. Sitting at the dock waiting for random truckers, robbing fishers or mugging people simply because they have the nerve to be outside and on their own (or maybe in a small group not likely to resist) is basically a HUGE gamble. More and more so as more civilians are wise to this resorting to carrying nothing on them. I don't care what anyone says or how much people will howl and scream at me for it but this method of robbing, simply ISN'T realistic and only creates further divisions and disdain between illegal and legal roleplayers.

Couldn't understand a word of the above post, didn't seem like it was English to me but anyhooo... If you tried to leave a city irl with a bunch of unpaid fines, sooner or later those would catch up with you. Those fines don't just magically disappear because you name changed, if anything you shouldn't be allowed to name change until outstanding fines have been dealt with. Regardless I see nothing p2w about this, don't want fines? Don't get caught napping. If you do, pay what you owe before you name change to avoid issues. As this has a very simple self-solving solution that doesn't need admin intervention -100, this is a dumb idea just to get out of paying fines. I wonder who has the p2w mentality here?

As a person of British origin, acting on behalf of the British public we hereby relinquish any cultural ties or similarities to this character and recommend an immediate rpqm review at the earliest convenience of GTAW management forthwith.

There is, but it's never enforced. Just like report word length, and back and forth is rarely enforced anymore beyond a 'cut it out' even when it's repeated. Lying to administrators is something I always took a very dim view on and punished heavily for but sadly I've seen players not even ven being punished if they're caught doing the same shit they were recently punished for. And that is a huge issue, it emboldens rule breakers. That said, petty reports have always been and will always be an issue but admins are still required to handle them no matter how small the rulebreak. Sometimes even reporting the smallest rulebreak can uncover much more serious things, script abuse, ban evaders, all from one 'petty' report. So I would absolutely encourage reporting for even the smallest rulebreaks, at least IG ones. Imho NOT ENOUGH people report rulebreaks, cos they think nothing will be done and that it's not worth the effort.

Bro wtf do you mean I can't park my car around the corner to rob this random who probably has nothing on them? Get rid of this goofy ah rule it's so stupid.

Why don't you post from your real account instead of hiding behind an alt? At the end of the day GTAW IS a business, whether players accept that or not is irrelevant, it's a fact. But just like with any business there will be a tipping point where customers start to walk if there's too many poor decisions or too many customers that feel alienated, such is the beauty of a free market. Do I agree with all of the monetization and paywalls for certain features? Nah, Do I think donators get preferential admin treatment? No. Perhaps the community is big enough now to revise some donator perks but in the grand scheme of things GTAW is relatively tame and pretty standard for many communities when it comes to donator packages.

Oppressive behavior!!! I'm calling SBI..

I like pineapple on pizza, I fully expect to be RPQMd as if I murdered puppies for a living as to my reasoning and motivations for liking pineapple on pizza. And rumour has it @Pillsbury still wants a word with me.

"It happens in real life" only applies when it's convenient it seems, like police having bodycams or proactive use of the chopper, increased presence in infested areas, guards being armed. Though this example you mentioned wasnt as much an issue just before the vehicle ban (expensive vehicles in robberies was cracked down on by RPQM) the issue is the use of vehicles themselves. Rather, the volume of use and any associated meta. One person using a vehicle for a single robbery in a day isn't a problem, even if that's fully roleplayed and within the rules. The problem comes when (considering the alarming number of people who want this) a large portion of the criminal roleplayers suddenly start doing the same thing too. Unfortunately (let's be honest here) in most cases it won't just be once a day. It'll be multiple targets all around the map until either they get the cops called on them, or someone susses out they're chain robbing. That's gonna have a HUGE impact on the viability of civilian roleplay. The fact is no matter how much players will protest, kick, scream, spit, LMFAO, [insert obscene amounts of emojis here] and swear the earth is flat.. players aren't going to self moderate their activities for the benefit of others. I'm sorry but they just aren't. This thread is proof of that. I don't think people are ever gonna learn.

My vote would be for option 2 as it's technically taking IC advantage of something that is OOC and beyond the vehicle owners control. The vehicle owner has no recourse to have the duplicate keys removed when they'd realistically be able to get locks and ignition changed after the vehicle is recovered etc. With keyfobs its as simple as a change of frequency and the key is worthless plastic. Thus imo should be against the rules. Option 3: When the vehicle is reported stolen by script an 'invisible' timer of an hour starts, with say an extra random period of up to 15 minutes, so they don't know exactly when it stops working. After which time the duplicate key is disabled. This allows the criminal time to do whatever it is they do with stolen cars but could be roleplayed as the fob being disabled. which is perfectly reasonable these days. If they wanted to continue using the car, they'd have to then hotwire it. This also gives the owner some viable options without being stuck with a car stolen for hours, or criminals basically having free access to their car for however long the vdup lasts. Otherwise it's entirely unfair on the vehicle owner imo.

Do you have any clue how prison sentences are supposed to work? Want a good plea deal? Hire a good lawyer. Or better yet...now this is a really novel idea so bear with me.... play smarter and DON'T GET CAUGHT. One of the dumbest. most self-serving suggestions I've seen in a while.

As @DasFroggy mentioned, like him I'VE never been in the reports section on the receiving end, I've never had so much as an ingame warning even when I was new to the server. It's really not hard to stay out of trouble. You COMPLETELY missed the point I was making and it shows. I was saying that ajails and bans don't mean anything to the type of players this suggestion is aimed towards, the kind of players who use throwaway characters, they're not going to apply for PM or IFM things because THEY DON'T CARE. They know they're not getting those accepted and they're not even going to put in the effort to try. Ajails and bans don't mean anything to people who want to be intentionally disruptive and think they can outsmart the system. Ajails and bans ARE relatively meaningless to the majority of the community when they're not backed by enough consequences because the majority of the community don't make use of PM or IFM schemes, maybe 5% -10% of players do (Mostly because it can be a lot of effort, but that's by design) and those who do aren't likely to want to jeopardise their chances of being accepted. Players who contribute to the community, don't mind going through these application processes and the conditions they set. Players who fuck around don't give a shit and won't even look at UCP/Forum applications for things. THIS is who this suggestion is aimed at. Why's that so hard to understand?

Isn't that exactly what you're doing by defending such a ridiculous statement?

Would it fuckin' kill you to be more descriptive with responses so oh I don't know... PEOPLE DON'T GET CONFUSED? Kiiiiindaaaa like the guy you replied to did. Just saying"What?" Says absolutely NOTHING, doesn't add to the thread, doesn't help the discussion in any way. At least -1 or +1 actually expresses an opinion, even though those are almost as useless and cringe as "what?" when they're not accompanied by anything. Anyway I digress. 100% behind this suggestion despite what some have said, ajails mean very VERY little to the kinds of people this suggestion is aimed at and even if they do eventually get banned it still doesn't discourage the disruption meanwhile. Most are not gonna be applying to legal factions or other things which ajails on your record would typically effect. Being punished needs to hurt A LOT more than it currently does, more so if it's a second/third punishment. I know from time to time assets do get yeeted if they're blatantly misused but it's something that needs to be encouraged as an ENHANCEMENT to punishments that should be severe. Players won't care much about spending 30/60 minutes afk in ajail, they'll sure as hell care about their assets. Though I do agree it needs to be judged individually with discretion and perhaps approval by a level3+, this should avoid MOST administrative errors/poor judgement.

Why should a player ever be killed over something YOU instigated knowing the risks robbing an average citizen would be? The criminal needs to take non-lethal steps to ensure the civilian DOESN'T call the cops, get their ID, search their phone for compromising information, threaten to leak it if they call the cops, threaten to torch their house, whatever but don't kill them for doing something any reasonably minded person would do once it's safe to do considering they'd probably never see you again. That's just a really shitty thing to do, and in my opinion borderline DM and perhaps even PG.

This will simply cause a huge spike in robberies during those hours and everyone will simply log off to avoid dealing with it, so you'll only have robbers robbing robbers. Terrible idea.

This. I believe topics like these are just being left open on the off-chance anyone comes up with something that's actually constructive, you can have 20 pages of +1s but it still doesn't mean something will be implemented if it would ultimately be detrimental to the server. Given past experiences we've both highlighted it's a pretty safe bet that choruses of "trust us bro" are utterly meaningless and won't amount to any different outcome than we already know we'd get. Personally I can't remember the last time I was robbed because I use common sense but it doesn't mean I can go full Ostrich and pretend there isn't an issue with excessive robberies as a whole. The evidence is very, very clear and publicly available. Just look through the report player section, many involve robberies gone wrong, lack of fear etc how many more are handled in-game? How many more aren't reported because players feel they'll waste 2-3 days on the forums just for a warning anyway? How many more go under the radar because they meet the bare minimum standards and are forgotten about in 5 minutes? That's A LOTTA potential robberies. Saying "It can't be happening this much" is a fallacy at best. By excessive robberies, I don't mean by the same players but as a general roleplay activity. They're relied upon FAR too much under the guise of "character development", when there's so SO many other avenues of criminal roleplay that could be explored instead but aren't because of attitudes like "CBA", "LOOOOL WTF" "Robbing is easier bro", "We got no other way to make money" and until players are willing to consider the impact their actions have on server morale without spamming emojis and SMS slang, we're going to keep getting threads like this one with surprised Pikachu faces every time the limits of the rules are pushed too far by the exact same people who caused a need for this rule in the first place.

It's also been tried and tested on other servers where there were no robbery rules, people would take you to the middle of the desert to pat you down, then bust your kneecaps to make sure you didn't go anywhere IF you were lucky but the majority of the time you'd be shot just because you were robbed and saw who robbed you. This is where robbery rules and limits spawned from in the first place and why they exist at all. Because it was literal hell for anyone on the receiving end and rarely made for a good roleplay experience because players DIDN'T use common sense, weren't reasonable and abused every OOC advantage they could and still do. Otherwise there wouldn't be any need for more and more 'dumb' restrictions. Yet time and time again there are vast swathes of players insisting people would self-moderate, that it would be different but anytime players on gtaw are given the opportunity to do just that, guess what? They don't. Sure, restrictions might not make sense when compared to real life but they're sure as fuck necessary because it's A GAME and not real life. Especially if you want people to roleplay outside with any frequency. Everyone in this thread knows damn fine that if vehicles were allowed again and other restrictions were lifted that'd just be abused and we'd be back to LC all over again. They just won't admit it because it goes against what they want. It's getting really old.

I'd hate to see what you think is lenient, Jesus dude... 99% of the community thinks punishments are too lenient, even illegal roleplayers think it's bullshit. When was the last time you saw the majority of the community agree on something? What should that tell you? Use common sense my man. I like @Valkyria's idea in addition to ajails. I've threatened to revoke trucker jobs from players in the past to those who were doing cross country trucking, not roleplaying deliveries etc and they got the message. I think it could work really well on a larger scale. If people are gonna behave like children, treat them like it.

I've had the same conversation with Nervous in the past and I think every single member of staff both current and past will agree that everyone deserves a second chance but not before they've had time to reflect on their behavior. But the part I have bolded is EXACTLY the issue. If someone truly has changed their behavior they'll show it, if they need 3/4 chances to change they don't fucking deserve it. It's truly a joke the way bans are handled, not because players get second chances and sometimes given benefit of the doubt, especially if it's been a long time since their ban but because those who don't change make a mockery of the system and are repeatedly let back into the server. How can that not be a huge red flag to anyone with a functioning brain?

No, if someone is punished for DM 3 times they need to be perma banned, it's that simple. Same goes for any other rules, if someone is repeatedly breaking rules what's 5 minutes going to do? You need to at least DOUBLE the time for repeat offences as I mentioned before. If 2 hours in ajail (after several offences) doesn't correct someone's behavior, they're not fit for the community. If you want ajails to be meaningful you need to do this, or at the very least make them have more meaningful consequences than JUST standing around afk waiting for a timer to go down. Exclusion from PK wars, exclusion from running leased businesses, being able to apply for housing (I'm not sure if it's already taken into account or not by PM). If you want to keep ajails, make sure they hurt and make the player think twice else they're pointless.