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SAN ANDREAS CONFEDERATION OF CLUBS INTRODUCTION A confederation of clubs is a local level gathering of all motorcyclists, both club level and independent riders. The San Andreas CoC, Region 1, belongs to the NCOM. The NCOM is the National Coalition Of Motorcyclists which was founded to act as a unified front for all riders. The San Andreas Confederation of Clubs aims to preserve the freedom and defense of American rights for all Motorcycle clubs and Motorcyclists. Motorcyclists who wish to establish their club within the state of San Andreas must seek the SACOC to facilitate communication and advance through the appropriate process of establishment. MISSION STATEMENT The San Andreas Confederation of Clubs is built upon San Andreas Motorcycle Clubs and Organizations with the sole purpose of unity and to facilitate communication among its members. To provide an orthodox process of club establishment within the state and ensure order is preserved. The SACOC is a selection of clubs serving to educate motorcyclists and clubs on the positive aspects of riding and stand in defense of our American rights. For years, law enforcement officers have wrongfully targeted those associated with motorcycle clubs. NCOM, and on a more local level, the San Andreas Confederation of Clubs fight fiercely to end the unjust treatment against those who decide to fly patches, or simply ride in peace. The NCOM and CoC offer assistance in legal services against those wrongly harassed or targeted for club affiliations or motorcyclist nature. NCOM and the CoC will also work tirelessly to defend any and all motorcyclists from unconstitutional or prejudice legislation by any lawful means necessary. This Confederation of Clubs is established by bikers for the sole purpose of bikers, and is open to any and all bikers. CLUB LISTING The SACOC does not approve cop clubs. All clubs are active participants within the SACOC community to achieve a common goal by lawful means. The SACOC retains the right to excommunicate problematic clubs. Excommunicated clubs will not be allowed at meetings, and will not be welcome to attend any officially sponsored events. Clubs may appeal an excommunication, but an unanimous vote is required to overturn it. Any new club in the state of San Andreas must reach out to the CoC to begin the blessing process. The blessing process requires a blessing from both the dominant one percenter club and the CoC itself. The CoC will arrange a meeting between the dominant one percenter club and the prospective club. SACOC MEMBERS TBD YOUR RIGHTS • Be polite and courteous to police officers, never foul-mouth them. • Maintain your composure and emotions with police officers. • Do not resist, elude or attack the police officer whether you believe you are innocent or not. • Ask for a lawyer upon your arrest. • Take note of the officer's badge number and patrol car numbers. • Take note of witnesses. • Contact us or your lawyer to file a written complaint with the Los Santos Police Department's Internal Affairs division. • Comply with the police officer and present your licenses & registration. • Do not obstruct the police's work. • Be cautious of what you say, your words can be used against you and may lead to an arrest if you are not wary of your words. If you are arrested or taken to a police station, you hold the right to remain silent. Following a certain time of your arrest, you are eligible to ask for a lawyer. Ask for your lawyer immediately and do not provide any explanation. You and your lawyer can decide what's best in court for your explanation. Do not make any official decisions without speaking to your lawyer, as they know best. BECOME A MEMBER If your group seeks to be an active member within the SACOC, we encourage you to reach out through an e-mail to our Chairman. We ask you to participate in SACOC hosted events to hold a common ground among club members and to establish a relationship. Our calendar is displayed below.

Why is this in the faction's section rather than the business section?

Alright, so let me explain a gripe I've been having to open this conversation. It really concerns how ambiguous the PK's and CK's are on the server, and how there is no hardcore definitions for them which makes them really messy and just outright weird. Here is the problem, and I'll make a scene. Imagine you're a criminal, and you're engaging in a store robbery on the server. And during that robbery, you end up PKing someone and escape and maybe later get caught by police. As it stands right now, you would be charged with Murder 2nd or 1st Degree depending on how charging will go in your individual case, with your victim officially being named the individual who you would've PK'd. Here is where the issues are in this. One, the PK'd victim isn't actually murdered and still lives and will be walking around, roleplaying, and still living out their life. Now how people resolve the issue of continuity in this, we have two standards currently being upheld which are contradictory. PD, Courts, and the person who shot would be RPing from this point that someone was actually killed and would name the victim and all of their RP would be structured on this premise and inducted into their character stories. But for the person who was actually PK'd, they would act like this never happened to them. That they were never involved in a store robbery and were killed (Because how could they, if they're living still.) And may OOCly make up some BS like "Oh I heard someone around the corner got shot in a robbery, etc." Just to keep on with their normal roleplay. This is a legitimate problem, because it makes absolutely no sense. Because you have two realities, one where someone is roleplaying that someone was legitimately murdered and put in the ground, them being charged with such an offense of murder, and everyone on one side of the aisle claiming that someone was murdered. And the other side claiming they have nothing to do with the incident and all (Since they were the victims.) And thus are absolutely disconnected, and it's basically de-facto removed from their character history unless they personally choose to make it a CK on themselves to fix the contradiction which few will do. I want to fix this problem, because it absolutely makes zero sense to continue. Here is what I propose: Make an official topic detailing PK's and CK's, defining PK's as Attempted Murders and not Full Murders. Allowing victims to continue roleplaying if they've ever been shot, and deal with IC repercussions to encourage further RP off incidents that occur. In the official thread, define CK's as Full Murders. As the victim will legitimately be removed from the RP, and cannot come back. It's that simple. You don't have to change CK's or PK rules or enforce one standard over the other. Just make it crystal clear that PK's are not full murders rather attempted murders, and CK's are full murders. This would solve a hell of a lot of immersion issues, and stop this alternate reality game where two sides go away from an incident with two different mindsets of what happened and still influencing the RP with stories that make zero sense. It's just absolutely breaks immersion from an IC and OOC perspective to see someone you killed and got charged with or not walking down the street all calm and such like he was never in a shootout or whatever, to see entire casefiles and such made on someone who is still fine, to have people getting like 20 murder charges just calmly living their life in Los Santos because we're taking PK's as Murders. It makes no sense, and it's absolutely breaking reality in so many weird ways and I believe it needs to stop. I shall allow discussion from this point on. Note: This thread isn't about PK's or CK's frequency, or which should be more rare or not. This thread is only talking about defining the OOC standard for how they are to be roleplayed as and that is all. Please don't derail the conversation into which you prefer, want to happen more, etc as that is an entirely separate topic. Thank you.

I feel a little compelled to post because it seems that this thread’s scope doesn’t really extend past shitting on the golfing club & outcome of the civil case. Like Thirteen said, the golfing club is meant to be secluded because it’s for an exclusive group of people: the rich. Any country club is not necessarily about the recreational sports it offers—it’s more about the status symbol a membership to one encapsulates. That’s why it’s not really a matter of how often the golf course sees action. Sten’s actions are detrimental to the integrity of the roleplay had by the club’s members who have paid a membership fee. Side note: if the country club wasn’t regulated by an IC entity, wouldn’t what he did be considered powergaming? Considering the fact that a golf club would not be a public space—especially one in a part of town populated by people from an upper socioeconomic standing—Sten would have no one to go through to buy a membership, a day pass, or even get an invitation. If members can be subjected to player reports over ”unrealistic” FaceBrowser posts (like that one about the construction site), then why is this case so hotly contested? In any case, from what I’m reading, Sten was rich. If he wanted his character to be a wealthy one who luxuriated in the use of such fancy private facilities, he should’ve either inquired beforehand about a membership to the club IC or OOC, or taken the membership offer given to him after the FB post was made. Sten handled the entire situation very poorly, both IC and OOC. Any person being sued for $150,000 would not represent themselves in court. I think that move was an external projection of how the player portraying Sten felt about the case (and he made his feelings very clear with his actions following the outcome), and thus, subpar roleplay on his part. Why would he opt to represent himself? Does he have a background in law studies or is he otherwise well-versed with the law? If anyone sued me for any amount of money, I’d AT LEAST seek advice from a practicing attorney. He presented a poor defense. Someone who knew what they were doing could have mitigated the outcome’s severity Rich entities, like golf clubs, have the means to bully people into submission through the court system beause they have the money for it. It happens IRL—why shouldn’t it happen IC? I’ve seen a thread here complaining about the lack of resources to roleplay a rich person, and yet here you are, raising hell when someone does what a rich person would do IRL. It’s not pretty. I think it calls for official inquiries to the courts system IC, staged protests against the golfing club, and officials ensuring that each case escalated to the courts is FAIR. To do so, I’d suggest: - if an individual wants to represent themselves, the Judge should ascertain that they’re familiar with the law and have the capability to defend themselves against practicing lawyers - court-appointed lawyers if an individual is unable to source a lawyer to defend themselves - longer recess time for an individual to seek effective legal counsel should they choose to represent themselves To conclude, I’d like to say that the outcome of the Sten vs. GWC case would have made for some interesting roleplay with the aforementioned protests, known members being harassed in public about it, etc... instead all we have is a big OOC witch-hunt and a messy situation that resulted in a player quitting the server. I’ve had excellent, engaging roleplay at the golf club and I 100% recommend players to try it out. The pretentiousness of it all is very immersive. Anyway, I guess my questions would be: Do you plan on implementing the use of juries in any capacity? Are there death penalty/life imprisonment trials? I think the latter would make for a great thread to read through (and a cool CK if the defendant is found guilty!)

Definitely needs to be addressed. I've PKed players before and had them show up later and in my RP and it leads to an awkward situation for all parties. Lets look at the character Cam Vance (I don't know your forum name, apologies). Cam and Aaron got in an argument, Cam hit Aaron with his car, Aaron tracked him down and PKed him. Neither of us exist in each others worlds, but here's where the problem starts. Now Cam Vance is closely associated to a character I frequently do business with, OOCly I know whats going on and although I would never do business with Cam for IC reason's, I also can't address this conflict with the third party because Cam is dead in my world. My suggestion? PK = Spur of the moment attacks or attacks where you can not confirm the death of the victim. CK = Attacks that have been planned out and carried out properly where the death of the victim can be confirmed. Or killings that are approved by staff using the normal CK application. Here's some example: PK: Rolling 60's insulted JTM, JTM decides to execute a drive by on Chamberlain hills, Although they kill multiple characters, They can't confirm that they are dead. CK: The Conti Crew discovers one of their associates are going to flip. They find the associate and kidnap him, Executing him and disposing of the body and evidence properly. Confirming that he is dead. Not the perfect rules but I think it leaves room for people to figure a bit of it out themselves.

A long awaited discussion that needs to happen. This pretty much falls in line with 'RP gun fear'. Firstly - there absolutely needs to be a statute of the server rules that states a "legitimate" (CK/PK) attempt on a characters' life needs to be RP'd to some extent. In layman terms 'RP CK fear'. Furthermore, PKs need to be addressed as Brett said: There is far too much confusion about how to prosecute or in my character's case defend against or otherwise roleplay the criminal act of attempted murder/homicide etc when two parties walk away with different RP. In short, we need a common ground on these scenarios so that civvie players, LEOs and Judicial staff can have a cohesive interaction.

Patched In Part Two: Sharing the news

Lol, you speak like having a group of members within the community who speak and help push things on the server is a bad thing. No matter what server it is. And no, we aren't cry babies. It literally doesn't make fucking sense so I don't see how you don't see that. The drug economy on here is trash as of right now, there's no proper roleplay going with drug deals. It needs to be fixed. If suppliers aren't pushing prices that make sense, then there needs to be a cap on it. There's OOC rules surrounding robberies and scams, what difference does it make? What sense do you make? It's already being done on the server, I guess you're just to blind to see that. No one roleplays around drugs because they're too expensive. And they're not profitable. If it's not profitable, why would you be doing it. The thrill behind roleplay is being able to properly develop your character from ground up. You can't do that if no-one is even trying to roleplay with you, because half the server doesn't even roleplay with drugs other than the gangs who get it for stupid cheap or are supplied it.

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Gravedwellers (MC) leader arrested in East Vinewood stop Los Santos, SA (October 29, 2019) - submitted by HELM The leader and several members of the Gravedwellers Motorcycle Club were recently arrested following a traffic stop carried out by the Los Santos Police Department. Fortunately, the department's K9 unit happened to provide reasonable suspicion for a terry frisk on the members which led to charges of carrying an unlicensed firearm. Vincent Meadows is the president of the Los Santos chapter of the Gravedwellers MC, a close-knitted 1%ER motorcycle club who have only recently claimed the entire State of San Andreas. He is the only remaining original founder of the outlaw club. Trent Harper is the road captain of the Los Santos chapter of the Gravedwellers MC, the two bikers have reportedly been charged with carrying an unlicensed firearm. The club is currently under active investigation by the Police Department. The police department has carried out a raid on Tudor Autos and the neighbouring buildings, several bags of marijuana were seized in the bust. However, the outlaw motorcycle club have contested and filed a lawsuit against the police department for an unlawful search, given that the warrant was produced for Tudor Autos and not its neighbouring properties. Gravedwellers presence made clear in "Dogtown" Los Santos, SA (June 18, 2019) - submitted by HELM Following the burning of the Gravedwellers' clubhouse in El Burro, taking place only eleven months ago, the "outlaw motorcycle gang", as the media describes them due to their violent acts, has been reported to have set their sights on Vespucci grounds, in which they refer to as "Dogtown". The Gravedwellers have been demonstrating their presence in the city lately, they are commonly labelled as "stains in the city." The outlaw group have been reported to cause disturbances during barbecues, drunken nights and their obnoxiously loud motorcycles. Parkway Customs was reported to have shut down and collapsed due to the financial issues that derived from, allegedly, heavy extortion carried out by the outlaw group. Although a few of their "patch-holders" were employed in the automotive business, it would be no surprise for the Gravedwellers to have infiltrated the business for monetary benefits and enforce their legal agenda, as such has already occurred in the past. Despite their outlandish behaviour, many describe the group as "a good time overall". Not more than a few days ago, the group was seen assisting a family involved in a vehicular breakdown in the Hawick area, according to our bystander. They have been contributing to the community through charity runs, campaigns and general assistance to residents. However, there is no doubt they can be quite the burden to the city. State of outlaw motorcycle club unknown Los Santos, SA (December 26, 2018) - submitted by HELM The Gravedwellers have demonstrated their ruthless behaviour in the previous months, ranging from large-scale brawls to acts of violence involving shootings and knife attacks against rival club members. Such events have captured the public and media's attention. The outlaw motorcycle club has shown no signs of presence in Los Santos following Scott Haines' death, identified as the charter's President. Haines' death took place during a brutal shootout with the police. Detective Erin Morgan was also identified as a casualty. Their garage however, Parkway Customs, located next to the Los Santos International Airport, seems to be running by unaffiliated mechanics. Trails of the Gravedwellers have yet to be traced in the city of Los Santos. Los Santos Motorcycle Club expecting clubhouse renovations Los Santos, SA (June 29, 2018) - submitted by HELM El Burro based outlaw motorcycle club “Gravedwellers” are believed to be expecting changes to their home. The building was originally used as the headquarters for a car junkyard that belonged to the same club, locals claim that the building is used as a front for illegal business, however solid evidence has yet to come, as the group have been seen wandering the streets of Vespucci. The Gravedwellers' existence in Los Santos goes often unrecognized by the citizens, possibly due to their more "underground" work in the past couple of days. However, the biker scene isn’t unfamiliar with the bunch, as back in 2008 we have previously covered a major brawl going off between several motorcycle clubs at the annual “Bike Fest” in Liberty City, one of the MC’s involved being none other than the Gravedwellers themselves.

Who ready for all the unofficial factions to submit just pure dm clips?

Okay, understanding better now. If it's just a matter of legal classifications, then by all means, change PK's to Attempted Murder. It'd work out as long as the party that actually got scriptly killed has no recollection of it. They can avoid their past murderer by learning about the person's record/attempted murder charge via the public court system that's now even being broadcasted on social media. The same people with several murder charges would just be walking around with a record loaded with Attempted Murder charges instead. Though, I'm sure there'll be less of this going around with the more DM-hungry characters rp'ing in the prison to come. - Seems like the second point was a misunderstanding then and can be dismissed. But if someone ate an entire magazine to the chest and head and were scriptly killed and not just downed, with no immediate medical attention, I'd consider it powergaming and metagaming if they survived it and went on to be questioned.

Lawyer Up!

hot as hell.

Amazing high-quality roleplay, specifically when it involved blackmailing a Law enforcement officer. Continue with the astonishing work!

So you're telling me, a guy who've robbed someone and got caught, shoots a cop with his piss poor roleplay just to get gunned down and avoid jail is up to standards? If CK is enforced on that it won't change jack shit. Robbing people to farm guns while already having guns and more than enough $$ to buy more is what I'm talking about. Let's be real, you consider any South Central faction up to standards and with any background what so ever? Edit: As Brett said, this is off topic so hit my pms. On the topic though, I agree.

Just want to point this out, and will post this in the OP section. This isn't about making CK's or PK's more or less rare or frequent, nor do we need to offtrack the discussion on that point as that can come in it's own thread later. The only thing this suggestion is about, and conversation should be on, is the simple matter of defining what RP a true CK or PK is in terms of the server, because without that being clarified we can't even begin to have further conversations on if one should be more rare or not. Not taking a side in that debate, just trying to say that this suggestion isn't about that and I want to keep it on topic. Thank you all who have been doing so, and continue.

It finalises your vendetta without actually offing a character and potentially making someone leave the server. Honestly, CKs should be rare, unless you're targeting the head of a faction/group to seriously destabilise them I can't think of any situation in which you NEED to CK someone. From your point of view you killed that character and they can no longer trouble you. Why do you care if they're permadead? Your personal reasons have been fulfilled. Wanting more just seems like you legitimately want to aggravate that player. Again, this does not apply to faction leaders. If you want X faction to stop rivaling you or causing trouble, killing their leader makes perfect sense.

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Now that's white. Bliv ved bror

Good stuff for Jimbo, keep it going.

Good stuff and original ideas, will recommend some stuff to my lesbian roommates when they talk about kinky stuff in the next camping trip. 5/5 stars.